4 YO rescue and aggression

[Doggycrisis]

Please no judgement.

Adopted a Spanish mastin lab x who arrived sunday AM. Have two DC aged 5 and 7.

This AM 5 year old DS was building his train track, realised his train was upstairs and got up and ran to the door to grab it. Dog was sat to the side of door and fully lunged at DS but inhibited biting. But it was aggressive enough to scare me, she's a big girl. I don't think DS did anything to provoke her? If a child can't do as he did because the dog will bite then they shouldn't be together?

Shes also snapped at our other dog this morning. She's a beautiful dog but I'm not sure she and children should be together. She'd be the best dog you could ask for in an adult only home.

I'm 99% sure I know that she can't stay but what do I do? Rescue is based in Spain and the contract states to return to them but that could take weeks. What is the best to do in the interim?

Am I over reacting?

I'm astonished any rescue placed a mastiff in a family with two small kids. I'm even more astonished any parent who knows dogs, would risk that breed's traits and size around small kids.

You need to return that dog to the charity ASAP before one of your kids gets seriously hurt. A mastiff could very easily kill a small child.

You will have to take the dog to the vet and pay to have it humanely destroyed.

I'm astonished any rescue placed a mastiff in a family with two small kids. I'm even more astonished any parent who knows dogs, would risk that breed's traits and size around small kids.

I agree. The mind boggles over such poor decision making.

@SexyNeckbeard

She shouldnt have any access to your children - she's been through a hugely stressful journey, dumped in a home and is expected to be perfectly behaved?

Your children should not be running or making any sudden moves around her AT ALL even if she's behind a baby gate. It takes a long time to settle in a foreign rescue - why you think its OK to have the kids playing on the floor around this dog that you don't know is beyond me. I have 2 foreign rescues so I know what's involved.

Eventually your kid might be able to run past the dog but not after 3 days in your house, that's absolutely nuts to expect her to be OK with that. I know you said no judgment but foreign rescues get a terrible rap on here and its for things like this. If you contact the rescue they should sort out a foster placement for her.

This 100%

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh op but you have completely set her up to fail.
You shouldn't have her in the room with the children AT ALL yet. It's too soon. She needs to decompress and have time to adjust to her new surroundings.
Your son did provoke her by running. Not his fault as he's too young to know better. But they shouldn't have been in the room together. Allow her to free roam when the kids are not home but when they are they need to be separated or weeks yet. You can allow safe supervised interaction only. You also need to consult with a behaviourist.

@2bazookas

You will have to take the dog to the vet and pay to have it humanely destroyed.

Sorry? Absolutely not. The dog did not even bite. If the OP decides not to keep the dog, which would be very fair, it should be returned to the care of the rescue as I'm sure is stated on the contract. Even if the dog cannot cope with children which is not yet known, I'm sure it'd be very happy in a calm adult home.

Whether or not the dog should have had more time to decompress etc, it’s actually not normal behaviour for a well-rounded dog to lunge at someone, and shouldn’t be treated as such.
For a pet dog, especially one loving with a family you want their scared/startle behaviour to be withdraw/cower/run away. Not lunge.

@RunningFromInsanity

Whether or not the dog should have had more time to decompress etc, it’s actually not normal behaviour for a well-rounded dog to lunge at someone, and shouldn’t be treated as such. For a pet dog, especially one loving with a family you want their scared/startle behaviour to be withdraw/cower/run away. Not lunge.

Well rounded dogs that behave appropriately are made, not born, and this one has probably never lived in a house before

I agree with @RunningFromInsanity. Any dog who’s default reaction is to lunge has no business being a pet in a home with children regardless of the reason.

@SexyNeckbeard exactly why dogs shouldn’t be imported as pets without being correctly assessed and tested throughly in a home.

Honestly I find these rescues a disgrace and can’t support it at all.

What on earth made you think it was a good idea to rescue a dog that you'd never met before, and bring her into your home with your two young children?

The dog was behaving like a dog, and your 5yo was behaving like a 5yo, and unfortunately that's the problem. At 5yo, your son is impulsive and quick and didn't think to stop and not charge at the dog who was resting on the floor.

I also question the sanity of a rescue who allowed you to have a mastiff they are notorious for guarding and being exceptionally possessive. They are not dogs for families with young children in the slightest.

There are always posters who leap onto any thread about 'What breed should be get?' or 'We're thinking about getting a dog - would we make a good home?' with 'Get a rescue!' and 'Adopt don't shop!' and 'Its much easier to adopt from an overseas rescue'.

Many dogs in rescue are just not suitable for many, many homes that would be perfect homes for many puppies.

And sadly a lot of overseas rescues have a bad reputation because their dodgy decisions lead to exactly this sort of scenario. Dogs that can't cope in a house, dogs that bolt and are never seen again, dogs with massive prey drive in inexperienced hands or (a situation near me) a large breed half-grown dog rehomed to a couple with mobility issues and two small DC, one with SN (that dog lasted about a month; not sure who picked up the pieces).

I'm not judging you, OP: your previous experience obviously had an impact on your expectations. I'm judging the rescue. Some overseas ones are reputable and sensible, others let their hearts rule their heads.

I wouldn't have a guarding breed with DC unless I knew exactly what I was doing so I think you are right that the dog can't stay.

Our friends rehomed a rescue from Greece

First time they met it it was 6 months old and was delivered to their doorstep

.they had a 5 year old at the time but couldn't afford £1000 (as it then was) on a puppy .

The dog is a nightmare still they've spent a fortune on behaviourists

I cannot understand why anyone rehomes a dog they haven't met especially when they have children

“Many dogs in rescue are just not suitable for many, many homes that would be perfect homes for many puppies.”

There’s a huge difference between adopting a dog from a U.K. rescue though and getting one from abroad where they’ve often never even been pets, then kept in less than ideal shelters (that’s not a criticism, but they don’t have the facilities U.K. rescues do) then sent on a hugely traumatic several day journey straight into a home that’s clearly not been given good advice to settle it in...

This dog will absolutely definitely be under a huge amount of stress right now - the stress hormones just from the journey alone won’t even have gone down yet, nevermind any extra things she’s dealing with from being in a completely alien environment.

She was in a proper foster home for 3 months with an experienced dog trainer and I'm 100% in a child free home she would be incredible. I spent hours talking with the Foster carer, I think the issue is she hasn't been properly tested with children and it's where I and they have gone wrong. We had no issues with first dog so I think perhaps we are a bit too un-hesitant with number two.

During the day today with the children at school (and I do know dogs and body language) you wouldn't have known she's only been here a few days, she has been so settled. Compared to my first dog this one is much less nervous.

Fortunately she is built more like a big labrador than the mastin side of her so she isn't quite as big as she could be but she could certainly do some horrific damage despite that.

I've been speaking to my parents tonight, they are going to take her on. Luckily they've seen her every day so she is already familiar and she will continue to see me several times a week but without the stress of the children. I think it's kinder for her to not put her in that position.

The rescue are fairly confident she was a pet before, when she was found she resembled a dog who may have escaped and been out roaming for a fairly short period of time. She didn't look uncared for buy obviously there is no knowing her actual past. They appealed for her owners but no one came forward.

I think we all just got a bit too enthusiastic after it going so well first time round neither side asked enough questions.

You have two children who you must surely worship and adore. Yet you give a home to some random mutt from Spain that you know nothing about, a large mutt of uncertain background and breeding which, if it was of a mind to, could kill one of your children with one bite. Are you totally mad? What is more important to you - protecting your children or rehoming animals of dubious heritage? Why on earth do you want to invite an animal like this into your house? If you want to wrangle with large untrained foreign street dogs, leave your children out of it. Quite honestly, I have rarely heard something quite so stupid.

@Doggycrisis

Well I can't kick the kids out can I? He was playing calmly with his train set and got up and ran towards the door, he is 5 and really good with dogs but he is still 5.

Our existing dog is a foreign rescue and settled in beautifully following his lead on when he's ready. I've had dogs well over 20 years.

I've had a vagina for 40 years

That dues to make me a gynaecologist.

Not sure why your 20 years of experience is remotely reject the if none of it has been focussed on safe child-dog interactions or the rehabilitation of rescued and traumatised dogs.

You need to quickly adjust your assumptions if you want your dog to succeed and your child not to be maimed.

It's a dangerous gamble to play for the sake of ego.

I'm an animal behaviour expert and I know enough to know that bringing an unknown rescued dog into a home with small children is incredibly risky and dangerous.

Perhaps you know more than me abd can manage the situation, but from the info given I doubt it.

You NEED to keep your dog and children separate. No running, startling, or disturbing when eating/sleeping.

I would not get a second dog with children that age - never mind an 'imported' one, probable street dog. Too many unknowns, too many variables, too high risk.

Great news your parents can take her on OP, hopefully she will settle in and be a great dog for them :-)

Send it back. You should have been warned it was dangerous and unpredictable and not a suitable pet for a family with small children.

I am pleased to hear your parents will take your dog on. I do agree with a lot of what has been said here and do find it amazing the rescues re-home to families with younger children. You must be feeling terrible about the whole thing but at least there has not been any incidents of biting or anything more serious.

@Viviennemary

Send it back. You should have been warned it was dangerous and unpredictable and not a suitable pet for a family with small children.

And that’s another issue with some overseas rescue dogs, how to return it to Spain!

Exactly. I think its about time those dog imports from overseas were totally banned.