Teenage puppy whining!

[KILM]

Hi all!
Our working cocker is 5 months and we think she has hit the teenage stage - she's really healthy physically and teething is going well, but she's starting to show those teenagers signs. All expected and fine, its just one thing.
I WFH and originally worked downstairs with her, but then moved back to my office upstairs when she was 4 months because i realised me being in the room with her all the time was keeping her awake and she was getting overtired/overstimulated. So i moved back upstairs and come down throughout the day to let her out/have a play/go for a walk midday (she has another one around 5.30pm) and this has been working well for 3 weeks, she's been learning to settle in the day and has been happy. She gets a good mix of mental and physical exercise, engaging with us and quiet time and solo enrichment activities with a chew.
However for the last week as we are in the teenage stage, she has just randomly started low level crying/whining at various parts of the day, im pretty sure its just for attention as she has plenty of chews etc for teething and doesnt do it when myself and my partner are downstairs with her or at night (she sleeps downstairs on her own)
Is anyone else experiencing this/how do you handle it/do you do anything? Do i take her for another little walk before work? Im sort of hesitant about doing this as i start at 9 and she will generally doze until mid morning after ive come downstairs at 8ish to say hello.
Suggestions/experiences welcome!

Would it be possible for you to put her bed or mat either in your office or in the corridor just outside it? You mentioned that she was becoming overstimulated and overtired when you worked near her, but maybe there would be a way to find a happy medium. My puppy, also 5 months old, is fine on his own when we leave the house for an hour or so, but he definitely wants to be near us if we are at home. Does your pup know how to settle on a mat?

DH and I both work from home some of the time and the pup has for the most part been very well behaved. However, yesterday he suddenly began jumping on DH in the middle of a Zoom meeting. Fortunately it didn't last long. But WFH with a puppy can be as complicated as doing so with small children!

Is there a chance she's coming in to her first season? That can make them feel really out of sorts.

It sounds to me as though she's spending most of the day on her own in a separate room from you?

In all honesty, I don't think that's fair on her and I'm not surprised she's whining. I do appreciate what you're saying about her getting over-stimulated but 5 month old puppies need a lot of company and time from you - it's too much to expect her to be alone for such a long time, even if you do take her for a walk at lunchtime and let her out at other times.

I would put her bed in your room and teach her to settle on her bed while you work. You could use a pen, crate or tether to start with so she stays on her bed, and then you can give her chews, attention and most importantly, company.

Yes it does sound like she's spending the most part of the day alone. Even if you were coming down every hour on the hour, and spending time with her, she's still spending the overwhelming majority of the day on her own with you just popping down now and again

Dogs like company. She's whining because she's unhappy. Since you are at home the answer to that is to let her sleep in your office and teach her to settle there?

Dogs are sociable animals. It's not fair to expect her to be alone all the time. Why would you want that for her when you're actually at home (genuine question, I'm not trying to be difficult)

Thanks for the replies all - i've actually figured it out now after today! It happens after i've had to 'trade' with her. So when i let her out for a wee throughout the day she will generally go out in the garden and find a stick or a rock. (she has plenty of chews of different textures, she just enjoys a good stick or rock.
Half the time if i call her inside she drops them of her own accord, comes in and starts playing with her toys. The other half she stays put in the garden with her treasure
I cant let her keep them in case of splinters etc, so i will often have to offer up a treat to get her to drop. Its when i go upstairs after a 'trade' that she will whine.

Thanks for the suggestions - some are actually what i was doing before i moved upstairs - when she was over tired i would pop her in a pen next to me to settle in her bed with a kong / good chew / new toy, which would keep her going for a bit but she was demanding to be out tugging at my clothes/skin or picking up sticks/rocks in the garden even when you could see she was dead on her feet - eyes struggling to stay open kind of tired. She also cried/barked for attention when i was downstairs with her but not actively engaging with her, which stopped completely when i went upstairs, until this week!

To answer why i would want her to be alone - good question. I dont actually consider her to be 'alone', as im literally in the house with her all day, but i fully take that perspective on board as she's still a baby! She will often take herself off for a nap in the other room or a play in the garden without us at weekends and her confidence in general has been positively commented on by two different trainers, but i guess its different if the choice is hers. I think i am a bit worried about causing seperation anxiety as well - two people i know have dogs with horrendous seperation anxiety and both of them blame the fact that they worked from home downstairs when the pup was little so pup never learned to be away from them!

I've just totalled it up and out of 8 hours, 5 of those hours she is asleep, 1 hour (split into 40 mins lunch+walk then 4 x 5 minute cuddles/play) she's with me, which leaves 2 hours where she happily plays with toys/chews, watches birds/squirrels/cats in the garden/eats. Its just after these 'trades' i might get 5 minutes of whining.

Hope that helps explain things - now i've spotted its the trades that are winding her up i'll think of a better way to slowly disengage her from the contraband!

I've not had a puppy before, as mine have been/are rescues.
I dont understand why you let her chew on sticks, but then take it away in case of splinters, why let her have it at all, can still get splinters? And chew on rocks, erm no, what if she damages teeth, or swallows it? I wouldn't let my dogs do that. She should have some or all of adult teeth by now. I wouldn't risk it.

But that still means she's on her own for seven hours a day. Her being asleep for a good chunk of that doesn't negate the fact that she's by herself.

I'm glad you figured out some kind of trigger for her behaviour, but I do think that's far too much time alone for such a young puppy. I appreciate what you're saying about separation anxiety but you seem to have gone a bit too far the other way!

Dogs are companion animals and like to be around their families. There's really no need to leave a very small puppy alone pretty much all day to prevent separation anxiety, I promise.

@Cherrypies

I've not had a puppy before, as mine have been/are rescues. I dont understand why you let her chew on sticks, but then take it away in case of splinters, why let her have it at all, can still get splinters? And chew on rocks, erm no, what if she damages teeth, or swallows it? I wouldn't let my dogs do that. She should have some or all of adult teeth by now. I wouldn't risk it.

Sorry for any confusion - i dont let her chew on either of them, hence me talking about having to persuade her to drop them! If she picks one up and doesnt spit it back out im immediately trying to get her to put it down. She isnt left unattended in the garden due to this reason and we've gone through and removed as much as possible to try and prevent but she's a digger!

I appreciate what you are saying, the intention originally was that i would be downstairs with her until she was old enough to be climbing stairs and not chewing everything in sight so i could just let her potter about. But her overstimulation in the day was just causing her to be overtired so i thought this was a good solution she 100% knows im still at home with her as she can hear me (its open plan downstairs so there are no physical doors between us, just a stairgate) and knows when to alert me if she needs the loo.

What does confuse me is that she seems happy? Not showing any other signs of boredom/stress (and i have checked with our v straight talking trainer on signs of distress to watch out for as well who would be the first to tell me that we were being cruel!) if she was unhappy wouldnt she be letting me know? She's more than happy telling me to hurry up if im stood with her lead too long before a walk

Can you advise on how you go about this - when do you start to leave your dogs to exist unattended in other rooms when you are still home, and how long for etc? And do you WFH - are you literally just in the same room with your dog, do they choose to be with you constantly, or are you playing with them etc while you are working or do you just take a sabbatical while they are pups?
Any guidance appreciated - i am surrounded by people who have either similar setups to mine (in fact of the 10+ people i know who WFH with dogs i think only 1/3rd of the dogs actually choose to sit in the same room with them but obviously they are adults) But im keen to do whats best for her as an individual. I'll try being in the room with her next week and see if she settles any better in which case, fantastic, we can be in the same room again! I mean id much prefer to be sat staring at a puppy all day while i work - i thought i was doing what was best for her by giving her an environment where she actually got the sleep she needs. But hopefully now she's a bit older we can have both!

I would be doing a mixture of both at that age, as they do need to learn to settle/entertain themselves while you're around as well as when you're not, if that makes sense.

I just don't think it's fair to leave a 5 month old puppy on its own for seven hours a day. Even with you popping in for five minutes occasionally, that's a long time to be left alone with no other interaction or company from humans.

There are studies that show that some dogs sleep out of boredom rather than because they're actually content on their own, and some have been shown to have raised cortisol levels as a result, even though to us, they appear quite happy and content.

While puppies do need a lot of sleep I don't think it's necessary to leave her on her own for the majority of the day to achieve that. Maybe I'm soft but it seems very unfair to me to get a companion animal like a dog and leave it alone for hours on end - especially when you're in the room next door.

As a dog walker myself I will also say I've had a few clients who have tried this set-up and it all went to pot when the dog became a teenager and started becoming vocal and destructive - they started to need more attention and stimulation than when they were puppies and all those clients now use doggy daycare

That's not to say it will happen to you, but do be prepared for the teenage months when they start to become more active and need more input from you!

And I didn't mean to write such a long response, sorry!

Dont apologise, i appreciate your input! I will definitely reunite us downstairs next week and see how we get on. Totally get your point about sleeping due to boredom as well as thats something i've read, hence me popping down to see her so often. What did you do when your own dogs were pups in regards work, did you do daycare or take them with you dog walking?
I did want to put her in daycare a day or two a week once she was older anyway just because i know she'd have an absolute blast, i was just holding off to make sure she was a confident socialiser otherwise, as i wouldnt want to put a timid pup in at the deep end like that. She is doing well in that regard so the plan was to start her on one day a week at 6 months or so. As you say, the teenage years hit hard (our family dogs teenage period is still talked about in hushed tones!) So dont want to set us up for failure there.
I am already anticipating her needing a 'time out' space when she's older with me being in the same room as i can see her tugging at my clothes etc to get attention, we have a puppy pen already in case of needing to settle her but she's getting quite strong and im sure she will topple it eventually! Any recs in that regard - how do you handle the teenage attention seeking with your own dogs?

Reading with interest, as I have an almost 2 year old dog who still whines for attention and play, even when he can hardly keep his eyes open. I'm a bit mystified, there's somebody around all day and he's never completely alone - he uses a dog flap so he can come and go between house, garden and outside office as he pleases.

He could snooze in the office with me but chooses to lay in his spot by the front window most of the day, even if he's alone for a few hours. He pops out to check I'm there every now and then but doesn't stay - and when I do come indoors for tea or lunch or whatever, he grabs a toy and comes at me like a missile.

He has lots of chews and antlers but isn't that bothered about them. I'll have to Google teaching a settle.

This morning, for example, we've done a 4 mile off lead walk and he's galloped around like a loon. Now we're sitting having coffee and he's had breakfast, but he's bouncing around shoving a stuffed crocodile into my knees wanting to play. Lie down and go to sleep!!

When mine was that age he went to daycare as he was too young to be walking all day and I wanted to make sure he got plenty of rest and one-on-one attention too - he's almost four now and comes on a couple of walks a day with me, and then is either left at home (max 2-3 hours) or goes to my in-laws who pamper him and let him sleep by the fire all day

I never had to cope with him while I was WFH though so I don't really have much advice in terms of dealing with attention seeking then! I've heard of people using crates or tethering to stop the jumping up and pestering though

@Nandiniti have you considered over-stimulation in your case?

When mine has had a walk he always gets a long lasting chew afterwards to help him settle down, else he would be bouncing off the walls with adrenaline

I think it might be useful to train your dog to "settle" and link that to staying quietly in her bed. That way you can work in the same room with her so she has company, but she'll be calm enough that you can get on with things.

In terms of avoiding separation anxiety, I'd work on that outside work hours. Just the usual slow build-up of you leaving her in the house for small periods and gradually increasing that as long as she's comfortable.