Dog shouts on trains - help please!

[DepartFromTheIllegitimateChild]

Grrr, I just tapped away and lost a very detailed OP explaining this issue properly and (very sorry but) I really can't be bothered to write the whole thing again.

In summary: I need to go on trains as I don't drive (am learning for this very reason). Dog does not like to go on trains, he does random shouty barking. I am determined to do whatever is necessary to get him comfortable (and quiet) but am not sure current tactic is the best way/working at all. Current tactic is semi frequent mini train journeys with lots of praise and treats for quiet with the goal of progressing to longer journeys over time. He is so food focussed though that the treats stimulate rather than relax him so we never get to an actual state of calm.

Does anybody wiser/ more experienced have any advice for me? Open up to any suggestions! (I do know it won't be easy/quick - not looking for instant fix)

I'm not an expert, but have you tried distracting him with a long-lasting chew or kong rather than a constant supply of treats which keep him alert/looking for the next goody?

Have you tried an anti bark collar? Not the cruel ones but the ones that vibrate / beeps when dog barks… might be worth it just for the train journey?

Has he been taught to settle in any other contexts? If not, try teaching it in a calm situation - start at home, then take it out and about. If you teach him to settle on a blanket or a bit of vet bed, that could act as a cue and you could take it with you on the train.
I second icedcoffees idea of one longer lasting treat rather than keeping him on edge waiting for the next little snack.

Thank you both for replying and the ideas 

@icedcoffees
I have tried the long lasting chews and it works a little bit but not reliably enough and definitely not for the length of time I need in the long run. It very much acts as a distraction rather than actually getting to the root of the issue and preventing him from wanting/ needing to bark so as soon as he has had enough/ takes a gnawing break then it is straight back to edgy barky mood.
@Namehunting001
I hadn't considered an anti barking collar, no. I admit that what I've read about them in the past has led me to write them off completely. I was really hoping to find a way to make him not want to react in this way I suppose, rather than forcing him to suppress his urges.

@UnoriginalPenguin

Maybe this is a good idea. We never mastered a proper settle. He lies down nicely on command and becomes physically settled but not at all relaxed! This is basically what I'm looking for though. A "be calm and sleepy" command that actually works. Which is what people mean by a settle right?

I will Google some training tips for this. Thank you.

How is he with other public transport? Just wondering if something about trains in particular... does he start barking at the station or is it just on the train? the lighting? The fast movement? Vibrating sort of noise as train thunders along? Do you travel during busy times with lots of people and noise/smells?

Can you tire him out with a long walk first hoping he might sleep on the journey? What breed - if small can he fit in a carrier or similar? Obviously if big then not possible!

Also does he like music or white noise? If so could you play some on your phone during the journey to calm him? It must be very stressful for you!

@DepartFromTheIllegitimateChild
Yes, that's what I'm thinking - a sort of "nothing interesting is going to happen so I may as well chill" state. Kikopup is the queen of this. Disclaimer - still working towards this with my dog!

Forget the trains - for now.

Train the behaviour first and THEN relocate it to the environment.

Buy a small, flexible mat (e.g. a piece of vet bed) and at home train him to lie quietly on that mat. Once he has that and you can ask him to "settle" and have him lie down quietly on the mat for several minutes - start moving it about the house. Then into the garden. Then take it to a friends. Then sit outside a supermarket with it

Slowly work up through a variety of distracting environments until you are confident he absolutely understands the mat is for settling on and the cue "settle" means to go and do it.

Then try it on a very short train journey.

Once you have several calm train journeys under your belt, try it without the mat but using the same cue/command.

We use a prolonged wait/ place command on trains and buses.
Ddog has a small fleecy quilt that she has been taught to sit on. I stick it in my rucksack and she uses it in pubs, cafes, on buses and trains. It does have to go on my lap on buses, she is 20kg so just doable.

What breed, size is your Ddog?

...also, if he's still young now then age and time may also help you out in the future

@Aria20

How is he with other public transport?

He is quite similar on buses though not as consistently. I think the issue is just the stimulus overload - it's a lot worse if the train is busy or people are moving around a lot. The barking is not at one thing or at one point in particular though. It seems a bit like him letting off pent up stress that builds as more and more "stuff" that he isn't familiar with stimulates him.

Right now I am not having to do any regular journeys with him at all so I am only doing very short journeys with the very specific aim of trying to desensitise him. Over the summer I did several much longer journeys (planned before I knew about this issue) and it got progressively worse. I wouldn't have put him through that if I had known in advance - and it was extremely stressful (for him and me!)

Can you tire him out with a long walk first hoping he might sleep on the journey?

He doesn't really get sleepy tired when he is very tired if he is also stimulated, he just gets grumpy toddler manic. I always make sure he has been on a long walk before though.

What breed - if small can he fit in a carrier or similar?

He isn't a breed. He is a (second-hand) mish mash. Mostly pug and chihuahua but 13% terrier and the terrier genes must be bloody dominant as it seems like 99% (just had a a DNA test done and I was v surprised by the results!) Doesn't like being picked up, weighs 8.5kilos.

Would a soft foldable crate help?
It would be like his own private compartment
www.innerwolf.co.uk/maelson-soft-kennel.html

@SirSniffsAlot (and @UnoriginalPenguin and @Postdatedpandemic)

Thank you so much - I think that is exactly the sort of tactic/technique I was looking for. Makes sense to get that nailed off train and then transfer. It will be quite a challenge but I enjoy a dDog based challenge (and so does he if there are treats involved)

He is 14 months (I've had him since seven) so still young yes and I'm sure he will calm with age but I feel like this behaviour might become ingrained without intervention.

He's never been happy or calm in a crate I didn't work hard enough at it when he first came to me and he'd never been in one before then. I had one sitting in my house for a while and did the whole putting treats in it and leaving the door open but never got to the "close the door without him going completely manic and shouty with anxiety" stage. He used to sleep leaning next to it but that was the best that I could manage.

Also, (not that it is relevant) but here is a pic. Just because I will never miss an opportunity to show off his handsome little face.

@DepartFromTheIllegitimateChild

Also, (not that it is relevant) but here is a pic. Just because I will never miss an opportunity to show off his handsome little face.

Ah. Now I see the problem more clearly. It's his breed. He's one of the highly varied breed, Cuteness Maximus.

Well known to be Trouble

@SirSniffsAlot

If only I had known this in advance! I clearly did not do my breed research

What a cutie.
I love that you have posted a picture of him practising settle on a mat

@Postdatedpandemic

Hahaha, yes - good point! That pose is his "go to". He does it if I put my finger to my mouth and say shhh or if he's asking for me to throw a ball or give him something delicious.

Just need to work out how to get him to associate it with being calm and relaxed now.

@DepartFromTheIllegitimateChild

Also, (not that it is relevant) but here is a pic. Just because I will never miss an opportunity to show off his handsome little face.

Oh my what a lovely boy x

He’s gorgeous 🥰
I agree with pp that he’s on high alert when you travel, waiting for the treats. Ddog was awful and very hyper in new situations and travelling on public transport, she’s always been as good as gold in the car where she’s paid no attention. We took her on a walking holiday one çe where it was unexpectedly cold and our plans of eating in pub gardens had to be shelved. After the first few instances of high alert trying to get up at the table and being pushed firmly down she settled. The same with trains now, she knows the drill and settles very quickly. Get on train in as quiet a time as possible and calmly insist he sits quietly, pushing him down if he tries to get up or barks.