Visiting Christmas dog

[PiglingBlonde]

I am doing the family Christmas this year which at the moment means hosting for 20 people of which 2 are babies (one walking, one crawling), someone in a wheelchair and someone on sticks who is wobbly.

My brother came to visit last weekend and brought his new ££££ cavapoo with him which is about 3 months old. My brother is not an experienced dog owner, and the dog pooed in the house every time it needed to go - just to the left of his puppy pad, played tug of war with a baby's sock and chased our anxious rescue cat who has only just come back. My brother is insisting on bringing the dog with him for Christmas as it is cruel to ask him to stay in either kennels or his AirBnB on his own while he is out. He also doesn't believe in crating.

I suggested that the dog should not be in the house during Christmas due to the poo with moving babies and being very easy to trip over and that it should be put in the enclosed garden with a crate borrowed from a friend with a blanket / toys / food etc. This is also cruel and the dog should be treated as part of the family.

I'm getting quite stressed about this and wondered if that really is cruel and if it is, whether anyone has any suggestions for how to manage Christmas Eve and Christmas Day if crating and kennels are also off the table.

Just to be clear, I have no issue with the dog itself. My brother on the other hand...

You sound very reasonable - that’s a kind compromise . If your brother doesn’t like it, then he is being unreasonable. So much less stress for the dog too.

Yes, I think it sounds very reasonable.

Just be aware that it will be a bit lonely for the dog, so perhaps people should take it in turns to keep it company so it's not alone for too long.

It would be worth finding out from DBro how long he leaves the puppy alone for (by that age it could be a couple of hours. And make sure he does things like taking it for a long, exciting, exhausting walk just before it's time for Christmas lunch/dinner and leaves it with a kong (puzzle feeder to keep it occupied) and a comfy familiar place to doze.

Do make sure that there is bpnever any chocolate, or anything containing raisins or grapes left where the dog can reach them (they can be highly toxic, and nothing ruins a Christmas like an emergency trip to the vet). And of course keep dog away from tree (might think you've installed a urinal just for him!) and low hanging baubles that could break and cut his mouth.

I think what I will say is that the dog can go in the utility room but with a stair gate in front of the door as it is very easy to leave a door open but less so for a stairgate. It can have blanket, dog basket and food etc, but if it comes out it goes on the lead and not into the living room or kitchen until everything has been cleared up after lunch and the floor hoovered (for the dog's sake! I don't want it eating chocolate!)

Does that sound reasonable?

I think the main issue you may have is if the dog isn't used to being shut away, all it will do is cry, bark and howl itself silly. Teaching dogs to settle alone takes time and patience and there are lots of adult dogs who wouldn't like being isolated like that.

It may work but I think you need to be prepared to have quite a distressed pup on your hands if you shut it away for a good couple of hours while you eat.

Maybe suggest your brother walks it before you all sit down for your meal and leaves it with a tasty chew that will keep it occupied?

Just say he’s more than welcome to come. But the dog isn’t.

The utility room seems like a good idea, although the pup may not settle quietly if knows people are all off in another room, however it's for owner to deal with.

I've left my dogs in conservatory and in the car on driveway when visiting relatives, coated up & warm beds. They're used to spending lot of time in the car so settled fine and we popped out regularly to take them out. Admittedly dog theft wasn't as common and I'd be bit wary of that now especially with an in demand cockerpoo puppy

What you're suggesting OP does sound reasonable and I think you're being very flexible, which is more than you brother is being.

However, having the dog there at all not allowing for the fact that it might be incredibly stressed and overwhelmed by being in an environment that is going to be very busy and probably noisy.

Also, it's going to be impossible for your brother to keep a five month old puppy still on his lead for hours at a time and, from the sound of your brother, I suspect it'll be a case of 'the dog is unhappy, I'm going to let him off his lead, it'll be fine'.

You're poor cat is going to stressed by the dog being there, which isn't fair on your cat in his own territory.

At five months the puppy very well might not be properly house trained either, and in a strange house with everything that's going on I think you need to be prepared for accidents.

Your brother is being ridiculous to expect you to accept having his dog in your house. If he can't find a sitter or kennels then really he needs to stay at home and see your mother another day.

My dog is well behaved and calm and is 10 years old. I wouldn't expect anyone to just accept having her in their house and I wouldn't put her into the situation you describe, I think she'd find it very stressful.

A five month old puppy is likely going to get very excitable or very fearful by the whole situation.

The dog needs to be in kennels.

It's not fair on a puppy to be put in kennels or left in the garden, the good news however is that a month is a long time in a puppies life and by 4 months the puppy should be toilet trained. Keeping puppy on a lead is probably the best option

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Firstly I think you need to get a lot clearer with your brother - and your mum - at how unreasonable he is being. And maybe with yourself? I mean - this comment - it would be difficult to clean up poo quickly enough before it's either trodden into the carpet or crawled over by babies - JESUS FUCK - honestly there should not, ever, EVER even be the possibility that an untrained dog might shit on the carpet, in your home, where you are hosting 20 for Xmas and babies are crawling around. That is SO far past reasonable - honestly if that had happened even once previously then the question of Xmas would not even be on the table. (And for those saying a month is a long time and the puppy will be better trained - um - quite possibly not, with an inexperienced entitled 'it'll all be fine, you can't exclude my puppy' type for an owner?!)

The plan to leave the dog behind a gate in the utility: well what will actually happen is that it will bark and howl and cry and foul constantly, because it will be lonely, confused and won't understand what's happening and is still only a puppy so just won't lie down and go to sleep. It will be a complete headache and then your brother will hassle to just let it in, it'll be fine... because he won't want to sit with the puppy and put the puppy's needs first, will he? So you'll either have a row with him or upset the people with babies. And your cat will be terrified. How about the cat being part of YOUR family and being entitled to have a peaceful Christmas too?! No dog that had chased my cat would get over the threshold. You have a responsiblity to your cat just as he has one to the dog. The dog has NO RIGHT to come.

And the people with babies... honestly, I would not in a million years be prepared to have a largely untrained, 5-6 month old nutso cavapoo puppy around a baby. Not ever. Not even for one panting waggy tailed bombing around hello in the sitting room. It's dangerous. Full stop. They won't like it, they won't be able to relax. You will have to ensure for them that the dog is restrained and out of the room - so see above.

I think your solution sounds very reasonable and kind.
A decent walk in the morning and a big chew (antler etc) should keep it fairly calm during the main meal event and if it gets noisy or upset at other points then brother or other willing relative can take it for another walk.

Mum is really desperate to have all her babies with her for Christmas and would rather put up with almost anything to make sure that can happen and as she is now fairly immobile and in poor health, I don't want to make a big point about excluding even my PITA brother if it is potentially her last Christmas.

But that is HIS problem to solve. HE needs to prioritise his mum. So - he stays local in a dog friendly place, and comes for a couple of hours at a time and goes back to walk dog (just as he would in normal life?)

This is without even considering that the 20 plus at Xmas scenario would be hugely stressful for a puppy. So your brother is potentially looking at a pretty crap Xmas for himself - where is he staying? - even after hometime, is he going to be clearing up puppy sick at 3am with a mad overstimulated dog in the hotel, while you're at home upset that the folk with babies hurried away after a couple of hours thanks to the constant shouting and barking?

KENNELS!!!!!

Don’t freak the poor OP out, she’s offering a more than reasonable compromise and one that keeps the dog well away from babies, cat and any chocolate or raisins. Any howling from the utility room: ‘oh dear, DB, you’d better go and see if the dog needs walked’. Any messes: ‘oh, here’s the mop and the bleach’. Any attempts at letting it into the rest of the house: ‘oops, how did you get out? Back out you go. DB, your dog can’t be in here in case it chases the cat.’

Your solution sounds very reasonable for the dog and babies.
It sounds pretty unfair on your nervous cat to be honest.
I might be inclined to say that dog stays permanently in utility room for your cats sake, it is their home after all.

Just to add op, a turkey leg is not suitable as a blunt instrument. It is far too small. I believe the traditional implement is a frozen leg of lamb, to be henceforth roasted and served to the investigating officers [helpful face]

It would be a no from me. Your brother is being incredibly selfish having you stressing about this while hosting so many people at Christmas.

OP, I suggest making it VERY clear that the dog will only be welcome at all if he's house trained by christmas time. I know it sounds like a given, but you won't believe how little some people seem to train their dogs. I've seen some people complain about robot vacuums because it went over dog shit and smeared it across the room!

Also, mention that it will be limited to the utility room already, so that your DB can put in some training so the puppy doesn't howl. If he kicks up a storm, kindly suggests he rents an Air BnB large enough to host 20, and then his dog can go wherever he wants.

Dog barking in the utility room is going to lead to crying babies and people with headaches.

I think your offer sounds very reasonable. House training should have improved by Christmas, and as the puppy should be able to have a decent walk by then I would suggest that brother makes sure that pup is walked so is tired and more inclined to sleep when it comes to the house.. He could also look at things like pigs ears/ chews to keep the pup occupied at other times.

@PiglingBlonde

God, I bloody wish! I'm so fucked off with him I nearly posted in AIBU about whether I could club him to death with a turkey leg but was told by my dear mum that we needed to be positive about seeing him!

I proper belly laughed at this! 😆
I have dogs & yeah, I've asked to take them to family houses if I'm going to be out all day/overnight. If the answer is no, I don't go. It's that simple. If there is a good chance of a baby/infirm person treading in dog 💩 then he needs to stay at home with the dog.

I'm a cat owner. DCat HATES dogs. Therefore any visiting people aren't welcome to bring their DDogs. It's not fair for a cat to be scared in its own home.
SIL and MIL have dogs that like being in the car so they tend to arrive in time to give them a good walk for an hour or so before joining us for the celebrations. DDogs are then very happy to sleep in the back of their cars with someone popping out to check on them every so often (cars are on driveway outside our sitting room window so if they started howling / barking, we'd hear anyway). They are fed / watered in our garage (and I'd be happy for them to spend all their time there but they're happier in the back of the car which is more familiar).

Serious dog lover here, got 2,but wouldn't dream of inflicting a puppy, untrained at that on to someone else. Unlikely he will get kennel place now,most people book in the summer. If you're feeling that generous,yes, utility room, crate,hell have to take the dog out regularly. If it barks,send him home. There are a huge amount of things poisonous to dogs, frankly a nightmare at a big gathering to keep out of their way.puppy probably wouldn't enjoy it either

I would suggest your DB brings some of his worn clothing (ie smelling of him) to put with puppy in the utility room - it may keep him happier.

And perhaps allow a play session or two in the garden at some point during the day.

Hi OP, i think your utility room compromise sounds great but i agree with other posters that a puppy that little is likely going to cry/bark a lot being left alone out of the way which will add to your stress!
I dont know if you'd considered it yet and it might not be great space wise if you are hosting for 20 but you can buy puppy pens on Amazon (and when i say 'you' i mean your brother!!) which might be a good option if your brother buys one and then tries it out at home first before bringing pup to yours. You (and again, i mean your brother) can stick it in the corner so its as much out of the way as possible, stick puppy mats down (although hopefully your brother has got the swing of taking pup out before&after every sleep, play, eat as is needed at that age) put bed and toys in and then pup can be kept away from everyone but still in the room so less likely to howl the place down as they are very sociable at that age.
And if the puppy sticks to its routine and your brother brings it out to play/walk sporadically (hopefully pup will be fully vaxxed by christmas) then you will get moments of sleep.
Oh and we've recently discovered deer hide chews - gamechanger for keeping a puppy quiet!

You have my sympathies!

www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Pet-Pens-30-door/dp/B075898NLN/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?rdc=1&crid=35B993DYSF5N&keywords=puppy+pen&sprefix=puppy+pen%2Caps%2C122&srpt=PET_PLAYPEN&qsid=261-9293309-5274738&sres=B075898NLN%2CB07G51V6NR%2CB08Q2WPDWG%2CB08BFMS19H%2CB01B4UC4VW%2CB01CZNI31M%2CB013I52UCE%2CB07SJX3QXR%2CB00IYQQWIG%2CB07DRS3DRD%2CB00LRIONQ6%2CB01B4UC4XU%2CB01836RV68%2CB00RKVQZL0&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1636618694&sr=8-3

Thank you all very much. I'm going to email DB copying mum saying that he really should try and find a kennel for everyone's sake. If as looks likely, that doesn't work we go to plan B - utility room. I will move the cat into my bedroom with tray and food. He's not normally allowed in there so will hopefully rejoice at the opportunity to go to sleep on my bed for the day away from small children who think he is cuddly because he is a longhair.

If we have to go for plan B, the dog is walked before lunch and given basket/ chew toy in the utility room with DB's stinky shirt! If that doesn't work and he howls DB will have to take him away (and be ready to drive, which he probably hasn't considered. I'm going to enjoy telling him that one!)

Thank you very much for all the suggestions on this thread. I don't think we have room for a puppy pen, but we definitely have room in the freezer for a leg of lamb !

@PiglingBlonde

Thank you all very much. I'm going to email DB copying mum saying that he really should try and find a kennel for everyone's sake. If as looks likely, that doesn't work we go to plan B - utility room. I will move the cat into my bedroom with tray and food. He's not normally allowed in there so will hopefully rejoice at the opportunity to go to sleep on my bed for the day away from small children who think he is cuddly because he is a longhair.

If we have to go for plan B, the dog is walked before lunch and given basket/ chew toy in the utility room with DB's stinky shirt! If that doesn't work and he howls DB will have to take him away (and be ready to drive, which he probably hasn't considered. I'm going to enjoy telling him that one!)

Thank you very much for all the suggestions on this thread. I don't think we have room for a puppy pen, but we definitely have room in the freezer for a leg of lamb !

🐑😆🐑

I think your utility suggestion is fine. And also getting someone to take the dog on a really long walk at least twice. And also give the dog an ostrich bone or a kong to eat.

You may find the dog is a bit more settled down as it'll be a bit older...