Dealing with off lead dogs...

[StarfishDish]

I was walking my 14 month old lab and my baby in her pram in our park. A dog came bounding over from nowhere! I told my dog to sit (he is very excitable and just wants to play!) which he did.

This other dog was bouncing about, near me, near my dog as my dog sat there. As soon as it went near the pram, my dog jumped up but sat down as soon as I tokd him.

The owner is strolling up at this point, shouting this dogs name. The dog ignored her as he continues to jump around us.

Eventually, the woman manages to get her dog and then starts shouting at her for being a bad dog!

What can I do in that situation, should it happen again? I didn't want to let mt dog play as i wasn't sure if the other dog was friendly but I was so annoyed with the owner!

There’s a good summary of the problems with indiscriminate play here and in the OP’s situation that was absolutely the right choice to make, excellent lesson for her young dog that we don’t need to go hare-arsing up to every out of control dog we meet, and with a baby in a pram to consider it’s even more important to retain full control of the situation.

And this thread is exactly why dog owners and dog are unruly.

"The only want to play dogs" cause more issues and anxiety than any reactive dog.

Dogs do not need to play - adult dogs generally in natural habitat will not play over the age of 2.

I would say that dogs that play after this age are not having their needs meet by their owners (tin hat is on and ready but the scientific studies back me up)

Dogs should be able to walk past all dogs and if the owners want to they can interact with the dog. Most polite dog greeting would be a sniff at the nose and then the dogs move to the rear at this point it is more usual for dogs to go their separate ways. However some owners have allowed crazy play to follow at this point.

Dog socialisation is letting dogs be dogs , which means ignoring 90% of all dogs and a quick quiet interaction with a few. That is what dog socialisation and dog manners is all about. That is what dogs do naturally

OP you were totally correct in your actions. The only other thing you could do is to try to avoide areas where out of control and over aroused dogs walk. Even the owner knew their dogs behaviour was inappropriate so weird that Mns think it was ok

@MissyB1

The OP stated that her dog wanted to play didn’t she? What would be the problem with letting him off lead for a 5 minute romp? Young dogs need to be allowed to develop some social skills with other dogs.

But the other dog has already displayed poor manners and etiquette by barrelling over to OP and her dog and not recalling back to its owner.

Letting your dog socialise is about letting them be around well behaved dogs that are trustworthy and have good manners. This dog was poorly behaved and out of its' owners control.

"all dogs want to play" how ridiculous, no my 5 year old dog wants to play with certain known dogs but not that interested in general, especially not in young intact bouncy male dogs, why would he? they are on a completely different stages of life/development.

@Colin56. "Good talking to" . Are you for real.just come back from a lovely walk with my dogs,off lead, and lovely people with relaxed off lead dogs.Glad I dont live in your woods.

@Prattypatel

People,who dont let their dog off lead in safe areas,are people who either cant be bothered to train their dog,dont know how to train their dog,or in general(probably also with their kids) very anxious people.All dogs want to play( of course some areas are unsafe),like all children want to play.it is an important part of development.it is your responsibility to teach safe,responsible play.If you cant do this: DONT HAVE A DOG.

@Prattypatel

I've found that people who let their dogs come bounding over are the ones that really don't care and when something happens, it's never their fault.

My dog was waiting patiently as he'd been told. He isn't allowed off the lead when it's busy as his recall isn't 100% in busy areas. When the park is empty or very minimal people, he's allowed off his lead as he comes back every single time.

Dogs don't HAVE to play all the time - what a ridiculous comment. When we meet a dog with a responsible owner, we do allow him to play.

Thankyou to the posters with positive comments

My dog (she has been living with my ex after our break up, but still considered her mine) died a few days ago. She was a small but fierce dog that had some bad experiences with larger dogs when she was younger and therefore, we always kept her on a leash. She would get very defensive if other dogs, particularly larger ones, approached her but wouldn’t be fysically able to stand up to most of them. I absolutely dreaded it when other owners did not keep their dogs on a leash, would let their dog come over to us and wouldn’t even recall their dog when I asked politely because it ‘just wants to play’. It’s so unbelievably rude.

Possibly an unpopular opinion but there’s a lot of research to suggest that the micromanaging of dog-dog interaction in today’s world is the reason a lot of dogs don’t want to play and aren’t comfortable being social with their own species. Yes, a lot of this stems from rules in public places and a lack of safe space to let dogs off lead but there are owners out there that don’t make any attempt to let their dog learn what’s appropriate.

Any dog encounter for a dog that hasn’t learnt social skills can easily put them over threshold and most owners don’t have the ability to recognise body language and act accordingly. A growl when a dog jumps up on another serves as a reprimand and the dog shouldn’t be punished for making its feelings known. This just reinforces that another dog approaching is something they need to be anxious about.

Dogs need to learn how to recognise body language and what is appropriate behaviour towards other dogs - it isn’t something they automatically know how to do.

I do agree that dogs should only be off lead near other dogs once recall has been taught but with the best will in the world there will always be that one occasion where the owner hasn’t spotted a dog in the distance, and even dogs with reliable recall can have the odd moment of selective hearing.

One of my dogs was very anxious around other dogs after a bad experience as a pup and would bark/lunge but I took him to a behaviourist to work on this and he’s now absolutely fine to interact and play with other dogs. If you have a dog that doesn’t like or is scared of other dogs it’s quite likely that this can be changed if you’re willing to put in the effort. I didn’t like to think of my dog being anxious every time I took him for a walk and knew it was never going to be possible to avoid other dogs for the rest of his life.

There are a lot of owners out there that could do better for their dogs and it’s not just the ones with the recall issue that need to put in the training. There are some dogs that have aggressive tendencies but our behaviourist said these are few and far between with most dogs being capable of normal interactions with others.

@MissyB1

The OP stated that her dog wanted to play didn’t she? What would be the problem with letting him off lead for a 5 minute romp? Young dogs need to be allowed to develop some social skills with other dogs.

My dog would be a bloody liability if i did that. Dogs playing is basically dogs practising fighting. Should only be allowed with dogs you know well are both fine with each other

@Lightningrain

Possibly an unpopular opinion but there’s a lot of research to suggest that the micromanaging of dog-dog interaction in today’s world is the reason a lot of dogs don’t want to play and aren’t comfortable being social with their own species. Yes, a lot of this stems from rules in public places and a lack of safe space to let dogs off lead but there are owners out there that don’t make any attempt to let their dog learn what’s appropriate.

Any dog encounter for a dog that hasn’t learnt social skills can easily put them over threshold and most owners don’t have the ability to recognise body language and act accordingly. A growl when a dog jumps up on another serves as a reprimand and the dog shouldn’t be punished for making its feelings known. This just reinforces that another dog approaching is something they need to be anxious about.

Dogs need to learn how to recognise body language and what is appropriate behaviour towards other dogs - it isn’t something they automatically know how to do.

I do agree that dogs should only be off lead near other dogs once recall has been taught but with the best will in the world there will always be that one occasion where the owner hasn’t spotted a dog in the distance, and even dogs with reliable recall can have the odd moment of selective hearing.

One of my dogs was very anxious around other dogs after a bad experience as a pup and would bark/lunge but I took him to a behaviourist to work on this and he’s now absolutely fine to interact and play with other dogs. If you have a dog that doesn’t like or is scared of other dogs it’s quite likely that this can be changed if you’re willing to put in the effort. I didn’t like to think of my dog being anxious every time I took him for a walk and knew it was never going to be possible to avoid other dogs for the rest of his life.

There are a lot of owners out there that could do better for their dogs and it’s not just the ones with the recall issue that need to put in the training. There are some dogs that have aggressive tendencies but our behaviourist said these are few and far between with most dogs being capable of normal interactions with others.

Can you link to the research?

I am also of the unpopular opinion that dogs should be allowed to play and interact. I live in a very happy doggy community where people allow their dogs to play from puppies, they all run around together (under control) and none of the dogs are reactive. Some of them are a bit wary of being petted by people, but none of the dogs are wary or reactive to other dogs. They sit nicely for treats and share toys.

Training a dog to not be a nuisance and to have solid recall is a must to be off lead. But in my experience, its the being allowed to play and socialise that is hugely important, and a lot of that is down to relaxed owners letting their dogs play together. The enjoyment they get out of it is obvious.

@Stellaris22

I am also of the unpopular opinion that dogs should be allowed to play and interact. I live in a very happy doggy community where people allow their dogs to play from puppies, they all run around together (under control) and none of the dogs are reactive. Some of them are a bit wary of being petted by people, but none of the dogs are wary or reactive to other dogs. They sit nicely for treats and share toys.

Training a dog to not be a nuisance and to have solid recall is a must to be off lead. But in my experience, its the being allowed to play and socialise that is hugely important, and a lot of that is down to relaxed owners letting their dogs play together. The enjoyment they get out of it is obvious.

We have this in our park too and it's lovely to see but it's mostly young dogs, you do realise that dogs then loose a bit of interest in doing that don't you? My one would have happily played like that until he was about 3 and then he is more interested in doing his own thing, sniffing about and chasing squirrels. He is perfectly socialised but just not that interested in playing with young or old dogs, he'll have a spin around if he likes the dog but then that's it.

This hasn't happened with us, they still play together and chase. They love getting treats from other owners (always ask before giving food to another dog). They have a play to say hello when they see each other, and will wander off and sniff and do their own thing, but the excitement in seeing their pals is lovely.

I'm not sure if you would get a dog that is that comfortable around other dogs if they aren't allowed the freedom to interact and socialise. Goes without saying that solid recall and sensible owners are a must.

[quote Prattypitel]@Colin56. "Good talking to" . Are you for real.just come back from a lovely walk with my dogs,off lead, and lovely people with relaxed off lead dogs.Glad I dont live in your woods.[/quote]
@prattypatel I think you are alone in your views. Best of luck.

@Stellaris22

This hasn't happened with us, they still play together and chase. They love getting treats from other owners (always ask before giving food to another dog). They have a play to say hello when they see each other, and will wander off and sniff and do their own thing, but the excitement in seeing their pals is lovely.

I'm not sure if you would get a dog that is that comfortable around other dogs if they aren't allowed the freedom to interact and socialise. Goes without saying that solid recall and sensible owners are a must.

But that is perfectly fine and if they are all happy so be it and all lovely, it's obviously the ones that let their dog run up to all and sundry that is the problem. I had my dog on lead the other day for some reason I can't remember and he was surrounded by two very happy bouncy Shepherds, the problem is my dog hates that breed and I had to ask the owners to please call them back as my one will kick off. They did so no problem but I don't think they should have run up to try and play with my dog, which is on the lead at all

@Sweetleftfood I agree with your post. Its odd that learning to ignore other dogs is not really trained in the UK. Its an exercise that if got right is brilliant - same as recall. Needs amazing amount of work though.
A friend is a professional trainer and she trains this with reward for running by a dog on lead without stopping so the running dog is only fixated on the end result - food/ toy etc as opposed to the other dog. Very useful to have a dog trained like this.

It depends a lot on where you live and how relaxed dog owners are.

Hassling on lead dogs is never ok, and why solid recall is important. Training to ignore dogs just isn't something I agree with, it seems cruel to train a dog to not play. Being able to walk nicely on a lead and not be a nuisance is important training, but training a dog to not play and socialise seems an easy way to get a reactive dog who doesn't know how to safely play and interact with other dogs.

Reactivity from being attacked is horrible, but I often wonder if some reactivity is simply down to not socialising and being allowed the freedom to learn how to interact with other dogs. Its something that needs to be learned.

Being relaxed as a dog owner is great for dogs. People who don't let dogs play are missing out on the joy of seeing their pets be happy.

Not letting your dog off lead can be that you are still working on training them, so they will have good recall and will enjoy playing when free but know to behave when on lead.

Not that you are an anxious or irresponsible owner.

@PollyRoullson this is one of the bits of research I remember reading. There are lots of others but this one explains the importance of play for dogs. I find canine behaviour really interesting so I read up a fair bit when I was having issues with my dog.

www.cogprints.org/156/1/199709001.html

@Sweetleftfood my dog isn’t as bothered about frantic playing now as he’s 8 but he’ll still engage positively with younger dogs (albeit with a quick telling off if they get too much for him). He’ll still play fight over a tug toy or chase a ball with other dogs. He just seems to be a bit more selective than he used to but that’s fine as he has the right social skills now to deal with other dogs. We often find that young dogs will come for a sniff, immediately decide he’s boring and run off in search of something more fun.

Obviously the woman should have better control of her dog but not sure what else she can do other than say bad dog etc?
I think you reacted fine, not sure what else you could have done in that situation.

"Dogs playing is basically dogs practising fighting"

What rubbish. . My dog has never had a fight and just wants to run around playing chase and wagging his tail. There is no aggressive behaviour at all. He soon learnt not to go barging up to other dogs and he approaches other dogs cautiously. If they don't show any interest in playing he comes away.

[quote Colin56]@Sweetleftfood I agree with your post. Its odd that learning to ignore other dogs is not really trained in the UK. Its an exercise that if got right is brilliant - same as recall. Needs amazing amount of work though.
A friend is a professional trainer and she trains this with reward for running by a dog on lead without stopping so the running dog is only fixated on the end result - food/ toy etc as opposed to the other dog. Very useful to have a dog trained like this.[/quote]
Couldn't agree more!

@Prattypatel

People,who dont let their dog off lead in safe areas,are people who either cant be bothered to train their dog,dont know how to train their dog,or in general(probably also with their kids) very anxious people.All dogs want to play( of course some areas are unsafe),like all children want to play.it is an important part of development.it is your responsibility to teach safe,responsible play.If you cant do this: DONT HAVE A DOG.

Or they’re people who are ACTIVELY training their dog. Like me, with a reactive dog who needs safe introductions and to be on lead as per our qualified behaviourist advice and instructions. Letting your boisterous and rude dog approach an on lead dog who is learning how to socialise and be less reactive because you’re an idiot you think you know it all, is setting back the progress that dog is making and potentially putting your own dog in danger. Anyone who thinks like this mustn’t care that much about their own dogs safety.