Are you comfortable with this scenario if this was your child

[borntobeAcatslave]

I was helping my DC class for their Forrest school session today. We went for a lovely walk. A man with a large breed dog kindly gave us space to go first. One of the class boys went over to the dog and started stroking it's back. The boy has SEN and was with one to one with a staff member. This member stood right next to the boy but didn't really do anything.
I felt totally uncomfortable and my heart was racing and I felt I need to say something to the teacher.
Or am I overreacting here? It looked completely harmless, said boy has no sense of danger so needs handholding and supervision all the time.

It would've been better if the TA checked, but also if there was likely to be a problem the owner should have said something.

In the end this seems to have been a non issue.

Larger dogs tend to have steadier temperaments anyway - and I say this as the owner of a small dog!

I don't know if reading the body language of a dog/owner is the way to do a risk assessment of this situation.

It's a big part of it. If the owner spots the children, puts the dog on a lead and walks away briskly then it's probably a proactive child eater. Quite the opposite happened - a polite attempt to keep the dog out of the way in case of allergies / fears / general disruption, but no concerns about this child touching the dog.

It would be really worthwhile watching some YouTube videos about canine body language. It will help you in future work out how a dog is feeling about a particular situation. For instance, if a dog has quite loose (not stiff) body language, is 'wiggly' and is wagging their tail then you've got a very happy, relaxed dog and very limited danger. If a dog has their tail tucked between their legs, shows the whites of their eyes and turns their head away, they're really not happy with the situation (it doesn't automatically make them a child eater, just one that should be given a bit of space)

It would be really worthwhile watching some YouTube videos about canine body language. It will help you in future work out how a dog is feeling about a particular situation. For instance, if a dog has quite loose (not stiff) body language, is 'wiggly' and is wagging their tail then you've got a very happy, relaxed dog and very limited danger.

Bloody YouTube, watch it once and think you are an expert. I cringe when people say things like this, very few people can actively read a strangers dog, and those that can still use the marvellous gift of voice that we have been blessed with.

Do you have something against dogs or this TA? For your heart to be racing and to have such a dramatic response to something that is an everyday occurrence its a bit intense.

@Newfluff

It would be really worthwhile watching some YouTube videos about canine body language. It will help you in future work out how a dog is feeling about a particular situation. For instance, if a dog has quite loose (not stiff) body language, is 'wiggly' and is wagging their tail then you've got a very happy, relaxed dog and very limited danger.

Bloody YouTube, watch it once and think you are an expert. I cringe when people say things like this, very few people can actively read a strangers dog, and those that can still use the marvellous gift of voice that we have been blessed with.

It would likely help the OPs anxiety if she can understand what she's seeing in front of her. She seems very worried about all (big) dogs.

A lot of people seem to be scared of dogs because they don't understand the basics - like a dog sniffing them is not checking if they're edible. Understanding the basics is a great life skill, both from the point of view of allaying fears and giving those dogs who need it a wide berth.

I was walking DDog in a small park the other day - he was sniffing a tree and minding his own business. A young man quite literally walked into the park, spotted DDog, turned on his heels, fled to the other side of the road and waited until we'd left

Of course voice communication should be used - this is an "as well as" not an "instead of"

Not ok. At least the TA should have asked if the dog is ok with children.

Also, it would have been a great opportunity to teach the child to ask if they can stroke the dog... (obviously depending on the type of SEN)

Kid strokes dog I. Presence of owner - dog probably also in lead though you don’t say. . Non event. Owner knew the kids were there and didn’t scoot away.

Interestingly though the kids we meet in the local nature areas all say “ wow your dog is cute , but we aren’t allowed to touch dogs when we are with school “ which is the right thing.

I agree with you op. Unless dog was therapet or of similar nature, it was a risk to allow this interaction

@Turquoisesol

I agree with you op. Unless dog was therapet or of similar nature, it was a risk to allow this interaction

But once it was underway, the OPs reaction seems extreme.

Well the TA absolutely should have asked... but also...

Most dogs like children, even when they’re unpredictable (the children I mean) and if that wasn’t the case, the owner would have said something.

@Turquoisesol

I agree with you op. Unless dog was therapet or of similar nature, it was a risk to allow this interaction

Most dogs aren't out to savage random children - and if they are liable to aggression, most owners will say something and not allow the child to approach at all.

Personally I always stop children and explain they should ask, then if they do, I allow them to stroke my dog as he's exceptionally gentle with children.

The owner seems sensible and the dog didn't go on to savage anyone so I think OP was overreacting to say her heart was racing

Dogs and children live together and interact day in, day out and nothing happens. Some people (mostly on MN rather than in real life) get very panicky about dogs and seem to think they're out to eat everyone under the age of ten

@Finfintytint

Did the dog eat the child or something?

Total over reaction it’s a dog not a lion! You do kids no favours making them terrified of dogs

Why was your heart racing? That's very dramatic.

I'd have thought the TA should've asked if it was ok to pet the dog and my kids know always to ask but it's not a massively traumatic event and tbh if you're that stressed over nothing actually happening I'd worry how you'd cope in an actual emergency.

The child sounds like my son and in that scenario his one to one would have done a fast risk assessment in her head and decided that his interaction was lovely and far outweighed the risk of anything bad that could happen.
She would have then informed me via communication book and I would have smiled happily 🤷‍♀️.

No I wouldn't be comfortable with that situation.
I'd expect the TA to stop my child and ask permission.

Yes it was all fine this time, but if the TA is in the mindset that all dogs are as friendly, then it could easily turn nasty with a more aggressive dog.

How many times do you hear a dog owner shouting to you as their dog is bounding towards you "don't worry. He's friendly" they don't even stop to think that a child it is bouncing towards is terrified, or the dog it's heading for is reactive.
This same thinking happens with some people thinking all dogs are friendly.
I'd not want a person with that mindset in control of contact between my child and a dog.

Dog owner did the right thing - keeping dog calmly to one side with plenty of space for DC to pass.

TA/other responsible adult should ensure DC stay away from the dog, or interact with it safely and with permission

The TA should have asked but I assume the owner would have said to not touch the dog if there was likely to be a problem . However I do think you should raise it with the school / nursery as obviously you need to be able to trust that the staff are properly trained as they are also responsible for your own child .

I can't count how many times I have to say to adults and children accompanied by adults "please don't touch my dog or offer your fingers to him, he isn't friendly to strangers". He looks the cutest most adorable dog, and he is very well behaved in public, always on the lead when he should be; but he doesn't like being approached by random strangers who wish to pet him.

All adults should always ask before approaching any dog, and parents should teach their children to do the same.

I'm a dog owner. My dog has a fan club locally of children wanting to play with her. She's very, very good with children, in fact thrives on the attention (and does show off a bit),

However I'd still expect to be asked if a child we'd not met before wanted to approach her. Likewise, if a child looks wary or scared of her, I'd put her on the lead if in the park or keep her close to me.

It does appear here the owner knew the child was fine.

Some dogs will bite if someone persists in trying to pet them after they have given warning signals that have not been noticed or respected.

I'm pretty sure the owner would have said something before the boy touched the dog if he thought there was any chance the dog would bite

@borntobeAcatslave

If you are the owner of the dog and something happens are you ok to take the blame in this situation? How can you all be sure nothing wil happen? Even if the dog is harmless child could've done something to provoke the dog?

As the owner of the dog in this situation, I would have liked the TA to ask permission on behalf of the boy. My dogs are friendly and love kids but not all are and kids need to learn they can’t approach all dogs. If the boy is already petting my dogs and my dogs are busy enjoying the fuss from the boy, it’s too late to get bothered about permission and stopping the fuss would just upset the boy for no reason (and my dogs).

I would monitor the situation closely. My dogs are used to unpredictable kids and I’m not too worried about that. I am personally concerned about one of the dogs getting too excited but I will be watching for all eventualities, including the off chance that they react badly to the unpredictability of the boy, and pull my dog back if needed. The dog was on lead throughout and actually the owner kept them at their side, giving more control over the situation.

The TA was in the wrong to not ask permission on behalf of the boy and to not stop him approaching the dog. The dog owner did nothing wrong, other than having a “large breed”.

Dog owners are forever complaining on here about children stroking their pets without checking with them first so it’s interesting to see posts effectively saying ‘meh, no big deal’.

I would always check with the owner first before allowing a child in my care to put their dog and if I was a dog owner I’d put my dog on a lead around a group of children in this circumstance. They’re animals who can do a lot of damage (both!).

*pet