Feel like the worst dog owner ever

[ouchyoubiteybugger]

Took Ddog for walk today she is a 40kg large mutt. She was happily chasing leaves and dodgy looking twigs when 2 labs came out of the woods directly infront of her.
Ddog is always on a lead in this case it is a long line i was approx 2 metres away. Both dogs went straight to her face and then the white lab went to her rear.
For ref ddog has been attacked by little dogs multiple times always on back legs and although is eager to meet other dogs she is very wary of them around her rear. I started to call her away when the white dog moved towards her read again and ddog just snarled and bit onto its ear, she didn't release it until she had dragged the dog to the front away from her rear. Obviously the owner then caught up and i sent ddog off with dh while i checked on her dog and apologised, the lady said it was a small cut but a lot of blood and said she didn't see ddog ahead but that i should have shouted to recall her dogs and that ddog should have a muzzle on. At which point she had to recall her black dog as it was still following ddog and dh down the road, i feel so bad my dog hurt another dog but dh is adamant we shouldn't muzzle ddog as she was protecting herself and is otherwise soft as a brush.
Sorry for the essay but i would appreciate any help
Also i am saving for a dog behaviourist who specialises in my breed

@ouchyoubiteybugger
the other owners fault & you should have told her so!!

She had her dogs off leash & out of sight

Your dog was 2m from you, so although in a long lead, only a normal lead distance away.

Your dog warned it & it didn't back off, it went in for a butt sniff.

Your dog doesn't need to be muzzled!!

@LimitIsUp
its not other owners responsibility to train your puppy.

@villainousbroodmare

A muzzle is not a punishment. It's not painful, it's not restrictive. It just reduces the damage your dog can do. It also acts as a far more useful 'keep away' signal than your current yellow lead. It will instantly signal people to keep away from her - surely that's what you want?

Your right actually thats a better way to think of the muzzle, she loves all the people fuss though so i guess i was worried she would look vicious

@villainousbroodmare is totally on the money here about the muzzle being a protection, not a punishment.
Yes, the other owner wasn’t perfect here letting their dogs approach and you didn’t think it would escalate like it did, but it did. Yes, it would be amazing if every owner and their dog was perfectly behaved, but life doesn’t work like that and you really don’t want to have to be dealing with another dog with a chunk missing from them, do you?

Dogs do not need to be on a lead in all places at all times but they do need to be under close control. Letting your dogs run out of sight in a public place is just wrong. I am assuming the incident didn't take place in a dog park.

[quote FeatheredHope]@villainousbroodmare is totally on the money here about the muzzle being a protection, not a punishment.
Yes, the other owner wasn’t perfect here letting their dogs approach and you didn’t think it would escalate like it did, but it did. Yes, it would be amazing if every owner and their dog was perfectly behaved, but life doesn’t work like that and you really don’t want to have to be dealing with another dog with a chunk missing from them, do you?[/quote]
Definitely not, it hasn't done any good to my ddog or hers.

ouchyoubiteybugger the other owner wasn't in full charge of her dogs, they weren't socially tactful (most labs aren't) and your dog has unfortunately had some bad experiences but obviously she overreacted and upset everyone.
Who cares what a random passerby thinks, really?
Tbh when I see a dog muzzled and on a leash I think 'well done' to that owner for taking charge.

@Grumpyosaurus

I'd be extremely pissed off if someone else's dog bit one of mine in the circumstances described. It's not reasonable to expect other dog owner's to be psychic: longlines are generally used for training, and plenty of dogs are on leads because they have no recall, not because they are nervous or aggressive.

I do my best to keep my dogs away from unknown dogs until I have okayed things with the owner, but a small slip-up on my part shouldn't result in one of my dogs being bitten.

I say this as someone who used to own a reactive dog. He wasn't a biter, but he was loud and would roll another dog, so I regarded it as MY job (not the job of every other dog owner in the area) to keep him under control. Any failure of that control was MY responsibility.

OP, you are not the worst dog owner ever. You've slipped up, as we all do at times, but now you know what your dog is capable of, you need to act accordingly. You need to keep you dog under close control and work with someone who can help your dog be less anxious about other dogs.

Just for clarity as I'm a bit confused- you'd be pissed off if you had two dogs off the lead and one got bitten when out of your sight? I'm a dog owner and don't believe dogs should be off the lead in public places because of this. Is not always your friendly dog you have to think about. If the two dogs were on leads the owner could have stopped them approaching OP's dog in the first place and none of this would abbé happened. I get so annoyed with dogs off the lead approaching mine and owners thinking it's ok. My smaller dog has been attacked whilst on the lead in similar circumstances.

*have happened

@Spookypumpkinpants

What a facile remark, I am well aware that it is not other dogs owners responsibility to train my puppy it's mine, and you know what, at some point training requires testing her recall in a real life situation (rather than just in enclosed dog walking fields or at puppy training classes) - this is so abundantly obvious it's a face palm moment that you don't get this. I can't abide dog owners like you, and when I don't have a puppy in my charge (I have 3 other dogs including a reactive one and I walk them separately), I practice tolerance and acceptance towards other dog owners struggling with their adolescent dogs - you can see who is genuinely trying. A puppy is a canine toddler and if we see a human toddler in a public place tantrumming, the reasonable people among us don't judge the frazzled parents as long as they are attempting to manage the situation

She does like puppies and is absolutely fine when they run up but i dont know why she doesnt behave the same with older dogs, she is also very tolarate with children, older or mental ill people.

What is your gut feel OP? Could you see her doing this again in similar circumstances?

I think she is an amazing loving and amazing dog, and for her sake until i can sort the behaviourist out, i will put a muzzle on her. As i stated shes never done it before but i cant control other peoples dogs (and neither can a lot of them it seems) so i have to protect her.
As a side note just because your dog is small it does not make it acceptable for it to run up to any dog.
I don't want to say hi and talk to every person i meet why should a dog have to.
Thank you all

You don't need to muzzle your dog. Bat shit owner of other dogs needs to learn etiquette in keeping her dogs in sight and having good recall. She was projecting by blaming you. Her dogs were out of control and approached you and your under control dog. Even the most placid of dogs are reactive on a lead. Put yourself in your dogs position, you are suddenly surrounded by two strangers, one in front and one behind, you are tied so unable to escape, your reaction is to bite.

Muzzle. I say that kindly, to protect your dog. If this incident had escalated, serious injury had resulted and the police were called, you could lose her. Don’t take that risk again.

I've had three reactive dogs, one expensive vet bill when the first tore the ear of another dog. He was never off a short lead after that, then confined to the garden when that was too stressful.

The second, was a big dog - 25Kg ish - had to be muzzle trained and accepted it, it meant she could be off lead and interact with other dogs. It worked well. People assumed she was wearing a muzzle because she was a poo eater, that's a common assumption.

The current reactive (to un neutered males) is walked on a flexi, but is small enough to be picked up and marched past his triggers. He has one local dog who is his nemesis. The dog is lovely, the owner is lovely, we smile and wave at a distance as I make a very large detour round them.

The fact is, I think those of us with reactive dogs are 100% responsible for ensuring our dogs don't injure others.

I have other dogs that are friendly, walked off lead, and happily play with dogs they meet. Their recall is excellent (both food focused) and I can usually call them away from any other dog - we are getting to know the other reactive dogs in the area and every single one is walked on lead or is muzzled. The local facebook page is quick to warn of reactive dogs being walked off lead - two of my old favourite walks are now out of bounds because there are people who regularly walk aggressive dogs off lead there and I can't risk it with mine.

In the end, it doesn't matter which dog is right or which owner is in the wrong in any situation, is your dog likely to do damage? The answer to that is now "yes" so you are the owner who has to take action to mitigate that.

Emphatically agree Catrus

I don’t think you need to muzzle your dog. If someone else is walking their dogs off lead, doesn’t recall and they approach another dog and it results in a bite they bear responsibility. A long line isn’t necessarily a dog under close control but I wouldn’t dream of letting my dogs approach off lead and if they did resulting in them getting bitten I would be pissed off but hold my hands up to being responsible. I have two wonderful dogs, however one is reactive on lead with other dogs resulting from a bite from an off lead dog when he was 2. He will warn them, then snap. it is mind boggling as to how many people think it’s still ok to let their dogs approach and sniff off lead and on and then get pissy if he growls then snaps. DH had an incident several years ago, dog off lead approach’s our dog walking alongside DH and pushchair, asked to recall but doesn’t ddog gets anxious, as keeps getting sniffed, growls, eventually snaps and catches off lead dog on the head and draws blood. DH apologised, but explained he had requested and explained what would happen and owner did nothing. All appeared sorted until I get a text later in the day from a mum at the preschool our kids attend stating that our dog had ‘attacked’ her best friends dog (also parent of preschool class child) and that we should pay for the vets bill. I then contacted them requesting for vets invoices and I was willing to pay half as ddog caused the injury however would not pay all as she didn’t heed DH’s warning and request and her dog was not under control. Invoices were never forthcoming but she did tell a few people to beware of our dog aggressive biting dog. I don’t think your in the wrong here OP.

“Your right actually thats a better way to think of the muzzle, she loves all the people fuss though so i guess i was worried she would look vicious“

I’ve found people ask why it’s on... and still ask if it’s ok to stroke them... and they work much better than anything else to make people keep their dogs away tbh.

If you train her to wear it properly, it’s just a thing she has on to go out to her, like a harness or anything else.

My dog is muzzle trained to go to the vets, when I pick it up he runs over all excited to stick his nose in it, because it’s the exciting thing that gets him good treats.

@Bostonbullsmumma, OP doesn't say the other owner was out of sight when the dog was bitten. And not everyone knows what a yellow flash means, and yellow flashes aren't always obvious and easily seen.

As I said, I used to have a reactive dog. I didn't see why his issues should spoil everyone else's dog walks. It was great when people were considerate, but he was my job, not theirs.

It’s all very well people blustering on about other people needing to teach perfect recalls, but given that the OP has absolutely no way of controlling other people it’s not terribly helpful. What she can control though is whether or not she chooses to use a muzzle 🤷‍♀️

Your dog was on a lead and the other dogs weren’t so I agree with your DH. It isn’t uncommon for dogs to bite other dogs when they are approached. If an owner wants their dog to have the greater freedom of being off lead then they should accept there will be a greater risk.

You don't need to muzzle your dog. Bat shit owner of other dogs needs to learn etiquette in keeping her dogs in sight and having good recall. She was projecting by blaming you. Her dogs were out of control and approached you and your under control dog.

On the other hand, I would argue that OP's dog wasn't under control if it was able to bite another dog OP was just two metres away.

OP knows her dog has growled and snapped at other dogs before and still put her dog in a position where it was surrounded by two unknown dogs. Unfortunately she took a risk and it didn't pay off as her dog aggressed and injured another.

If you have a reactive dog it is your responsibility to stop it biting and aggressing as at the end of the day, you're the one who has to deal with the consequences.

In this instance, OP allowed her dog to be surrounded and didn't make an attempt to call her back, nor did she shout to the owners of the other dogs to recall them.

You're not a terrible dog owner AT ALL. It's totally natural to feel utterly crap after an incident like this. But you clearly care deeply about your dog, as well about doing the right thing.

My dog gets nervous of big and/or intrusive dogs, and he doesn't like it when dogs greet him at the face. He'll usually let them sniff then try to get away from them. But if a dog won't leave him alone, and if I'm not able to block that dog or get the dog to move away, he will lunge/snarl/snap at the dog. No bites to date, but at the end of the day, dogs are dogs, and it does happen.

It would be ideal if everyone stopped their dogs from greeting unknown dogs without invitation, altogether. But in reality, this just doesn't happen. So as a few people have said, I'd just make a personal judgement call. A muzzle is more likely to help you relax too, which can only be a good thing in terms of the energy your doggo feels when there are other dogs around.

If it helps, I've just started muzzle training my dog too. He's always been nervous of the vet, but recently had an ear infection and tried to bite myself and the vet after being prodded for 20mins. I don't blame him, but obviously I don't want a bite situation on my hands. So now he'll wear a muzzle whenever he goes to the vet. And also in beer gardens, and on trains. Basically, anywhere he could react badly (even if he never tries to or the risk is so low). I hated the thought at first, but now I see the benefits and think it will actually be a really great thing.

I think muzzles also have the added benefit of getting people to be more conscious about staying away from a dog, so it could actually help your dog enjoy her walks more. :)

Good luck and don't beat yourself up. Things happen. Your dog hadn't done this before, and you're not a fortune teller. The other owner should have had her dogs way closer and in sight. Don't internalise her projection. She was just upset and shocked and feeling protective.

Just to say the yellow lead thing is not universally recognised and not should it be. Many of us use yellow leads as they are easy to see when dropped and provide extra visibility in poor light. Use a muzzle instead.

Nope. Use a muzzle as well as the yellow lead.