The cats will never accept him

[puginamug]

We have a 5 month old puppy.

I kind of hoped our cats (8 years old) would get used to him but it's not happening.

I've moved their litter tray and food upstairs where the dog is not allowed, and they have to run across the room where the dog is allowed to get into the garden. One of us holds the dog while the other opens the door.

The dog will chase the cats any chance he gets. They either scarper or a couple of times they have hissed at him.

I've tried having the cat in the room while the dog is on the lead, tried to encourage him to ignore them with treats but no good.

Am I fighting a losing battle?

Also need to point out that cats aren't being neglected. They have a whole bed to themselves upstairs and also sleep on our bed so still get plenty of attention.

They won't accept him while he's chasing them. You need to train him out of that - work on his 'stay' training, focusing on rewarding him for 'staying' when the cats are nearby. In the meantime, restrain him in the cats' presence.

Look at Facebook group dog training advice and support.

But I think 2 options.

Dog always on lead, long lead if necessary till learns not to chase. Keep on with distractions and treating. But never gets to chase.

Or let cats sort it out, our cat turned round and hissed and dog backed down, if puppy gets too close now he’ll sometimes get batted on the head, no claws. They co exist now, not friends.

I think it does get better as puppy grows up.

What sort of dog is he?
They wont get used to him if he chases them thats for sure. They have to run the gauntlet to get outside? Thats quite unfair on them. I dont think you thought this through.
Dogs and cats can live together very well if its a dog-savvy cat and a calm dog.

Dogs and cats can live together very well if its a dog-savvy cat and a calm dog.

Absolutely - my dog lived with two cats all his life, and apart from the odd sniff they ignored one another.

It took a year for our 9 year old cat to accept the puppy but they are now fine with each other, sleep on the sofa together, cat sniffs his nose, it’s very cute. I did think it would never happen though.

Key is to keep doing what you’re doing, don’t ever let the dog chase, let the cats have there own space and don’t force it.

They can live together just fine but generally you need to do a lot of training to get it to that point, unless you're very lucky and have a super calm dog and a cat whose willing to stand its' ground.

Dog needs to be on a lead whenever the cats are present so that he doesn't get the chance to practise the chasing behaviour, but at the same time the cats need to be able to get outside without the threat of being chased.

Have a Google of Catification - Jackson Galaxy is a cat behaviourist and he's a big fan of it. Basically, you need to make a runway for the cats using shelves etc. so they can get around the house using just those and don't have to worry about getting on the floor and near the dog.

It took a good year for our cats to get used to our puppy. He used to chase when very young but we trained him out of that and a few back handers from my huge boy cat soon sorted it.

The dog is wary of the boy cat now, won't pass him on the stairs etc and is submissive to him but my girl cat happily curls up with the dog on the sofa and licks him. If the boy cat tries to start a fight with the girl the dog is straight in the middle and guards her which is cute.

2 years on the boy cat will give him a sly lick of an ear in passing and tolerates him but they arent friends

You need to stop him chasing them...

You can get a trainer in to do one to one sessions specifically to work on that, that’s probably going to work a lot better than trying to do it alone tbh.

Even once you’ve fixed that it will take a long time, cats are not the most adaptable.

Mine has always lived with dogs and has had more comings and going’s because I foster too, with a dog that completely ignores her she’ll decide it’s ok after about 3 months. My current dog it’s taken 7 months before she’s gone, oh, ok... you’re not scary, just annoying, because he tries to interact with her.

I went through this with my dog and two cats. It's still a work in progress, but we've gone from the dog not even letting the cats in the living room to the dog chewing a pizzle on the sofa while one of the cats is sleeping on the back of the same sofa! They're definitely not friends, and they're definitely just tolerating each other, but after 6ish months, progress is happening. For context, our dog (high-energy working Cocker) was 8 months old when we got him and is now over a year old. Just sharing this to give you an idea of timescales and possible outcomes.

So - it IS possible with many dogs. You just have to be really consistent and basically be in training mode 24/7, ready to capture and shape behaviours. (Rather than, say, doing 15 mins of specific training but the rest of the day just letting things slide). It's hard work and feels futile, I know!

What we've found is this:

• Holding/restraining our dog only amps up the energy in the room. It's almost like he becomes a wind-up toy, ready to propel himself forward. He hates it.

• Teaching a "stay" is 100% crucial. It's taken months, but our dog will now go to his mat and stay on command whenever one of the cats is walking by. You can Google how to teach "go to place" and "sit/down stay". It's very easy, just takes consistent repetitive effort! He will occasionally move towards the cat if she's too close, but once he's reminded to go back to his mat, he goes.

• Time out. If doggo chases the cat, he gets put in a pen / the kitchen / separate area for about 20-40 seconds. It's not meant to be a punishment. More a consequence. Dogs learn through X = Y. You need your dog to know that chasing the cat = not that fun consequence.

• Preventing chasing. Ideally, you need to have a house line on him at all times or find some way of managing him so that he can't even move to chase your cats at all. Physically holding his body back is different to physically stepping on the line to stop him if he charges after them.

• Look at that / Look at me training (again, you can Google the process). You start out by having your dog sit, then when he looks at the cat without moving, you calmly treat and praise him. Once he's mastered that, you then get him to look at the cat THEN look at you, then he gets the reward (calmly).

• Something that helped me is this: When you want to avoid hyper energy (chasing, barking, boisterousness), you use calm rewards. Quiet, soothing, calm voice. When you want to get your dog excited (recall training, etc.), that's when you do the really big, loud, hyper type of praise.

Meanwhile, is there any way you can give your cats access to the garden without them having to run through the lounge? Can you put shelves on the wall to create a kitty walkway for them? Any way you can create a barrier/corridor with a pen opened up like a fence? Or any way they can access the garden from upstairs (i.e. my sister keeps a bedroom window open and her cat hops out onto the garage, then down to the garden).

Basically, it's a combination of management and training. The more you can reduce the need for the cats to run in a panic, the less your dog will chase. The more you can teach your dog to be calm (around the cats and overall), the calmer both your cats and dog will be around each other.

That's all really helpful thank you.
The only way the cats can get out another way is if we let them out of the front door.

We keep the living room/kitchen doors shut so they can't come in and dog can't get out. We did have stair gate but it was redundant as cats couldn't/wouldn't get through it or over it anyway.

Will definitely work on the not chasing. Thank you

We had similar issues introducing dog and cat - it helped getting a tall, sturdy cat tree that the cat could access without being in reach of the dog (she could hop straight onto it from the stair gate). She eventually started spending hours sitting up high watching the dog, gradually coming further down, staring and hissing at the dog to psyche her out. One final showdown, where the cat made unearthly noises and bopped dog in the face, and the dog had to submit to feline rule like the rest of us.
Luckily the dog is a) a wuss and b) a small companion breed with half her teeth missing - for a larger or more determined dog I’d definitely get professional help.

The dog will chase the cats any chance he gets.
Well it’s obvious why they don’t get on!

Mine took over a year and a lot of training before they would chill out in the same room. You can do it OP!

It’s worth keeping in mind though that if he’s got that chasing spirit in him then you’ll always have to keep half an eye on them together. Sometimes their instincts kick in before their training does.

Yes to training him out of chasing but other than that I think you have to leave them to sort themselves out to some degree. Always give the cats an escape route (we have a stairgate at the top of the stairs and upstairs is 'cats only') but fully separating and restraining Ddog etc is just ramping up the stress for all concerned.

We always had both cats and dogs growing up and I still do and the more relaxed you can be the better so they don't pick up on your anxiety. We brought a 4 month old puppy into a home with a 9 year old cat who'd never lived with a dog. Dcat lived upstairs for a few weeks at the beginning (I spent lots of time upstairs with him so he didn't feel pushed out ) but gradually ventured down more and more and they eventually integrated fully, Dpup got a few bops on the nose from Dcat along the way and the pecking order was soon established We've since added another dog and then a 6 month old kitten with no issues, we've now lost older Dcat sadly but he passed on his wisdom before he went and Dkitten (now grown up) is definitely the boss

It takes much longer than you expect but there will be gradual progress along the way, it's certainly fixable but training Ddog not to chase is your first job. Good luck, mine are quite affectionate with each other now and it's really sweet when you finally get there.

Mine took over a year before the cat would even come downstairs. We moved her food upstairs and she came in and out of the bedroom window and we never let the dog near her.
Eventually we let the dog upstairs and they started to tolerate each other. 2.5 years later they will have a mutual sniff and ignore (though the dog would like to lick the cat if she'd let her!)

Occasionally the cat rolls and wriggles and is obviously pleased to see the dog, then looks embarrassed that we've seen her

It just takes a LONG time and no chasing!

We have an opened out playpen which doubles as a room divider as the cats have to go through the dining room and kitchen to get to the back door. Pup is on one side of the dining room with us while we WFH, cats have a safe corridor on the other side.
Didn't think we'd have it this long (pup is a year tomorrow!) but cats are getting more confident. Younger cat loves the dog now, happily walks up to him or jumps on him (!), older cat is more wary so we keep it for her really.

We spent months trying to manage our pup and 2 cats, it was a military operation and so stressful. A friend suggested we just let them get on with it so we did and it worked. The cats gave the pup a battering. He also got bored of the chasing. They now just give eachother a sniff as they stroll past. Cats will sometimes rub up against the dog. He's a breed with a high prey drive too. Don't give up hope.