Romanian Rescue Pup

[fatherfurlong]

4 months ago I adopted a Romanian rescue puppy of 6 months old.
I had wanted a dog for a long time but because of work commitments I decided it was not a good idea. For a while I got my dog fix by walking a dog for someone else. Finally when I had to give up work because of caring commitments I decided to take the plunge and get a dog of my own & decided to go for a rescue pup. When we first got our pup I must admit I found it tough particularly as barking seemed to be his default setting all the time but we took things slow and after a few weeks things slowly improved and we fell into a routine.
Now 4 months since he arrived it’s all gone to pot. He is barking at all family members apart from me. One occasion my husband dropped a pen on the floor and bent to pick it up and the dog lunged at him. While he uncrosses or crosses his legs while sitting the dog will growl and snarl at him. He has growled at my brother in law, my son and even my disabled daughter. Initially we hired a behaviourist for a few issues and his advice was simple but did work around initial barking but I am really concerned now that the dog could bite someone. I was hoping after 4 months he would have settled more than this. While we sit in the lounge and we are all still he is OK but as son as one of us moves he growls, snarls and barks. Mealtimes are the same. I have invested so much emotion and money in this dog( he is good with other dogs but will bark at their owners if they approach him. He also barks at children in the park) so I would reluctantly return him to rescue as he has improved in some areas and feel it would set the dog back but I don’t think my nerves can take much more. Any advice/opinions I know the issue of dogs is highly charged so I won’t be offended by any criticism…..

So... mine is originally from Romania, I got him from a U.K. based rescue at 5 months, he’s just turned 1.

I did know he’d be very much a project dog and I’m not inexperienced and I still managed to underestimate quite how much work he’d need.

Being hyper attached to one family member and fear reactive to everyone else is apparently very common, as is issues with visitors and other people in general.

It took a good five months of loads of input and work to get mine ok with my other family members, he is now mostly normal with them, affectionate, playful... with the exception of he will still react if he can hear them in another level of the house but can’t see them... and it’s only now that we’re moving the effort into getting him to accept visitors.

I wouldn’t take him to the kind of park that children play in yet tbh. I can now walk him in busier places, but again... that’s been months of tiny steps up to that.

You do get trainers that specialise in Romanian dogs btw, it might be worth looking into one near you. They do tend to have different issues than U.K. born dogs, partly because of genetics and partly because of their early experiences.

So honestly - I think it sounds a bit like you’re expecting too much too soon from him and that you’re a bit out of your depth... that’s not a criticism, the trainer I’ve been using says it’s very common because rescues don’t paint an accurate picture of what’s involved.

If the behaviourist was good, why don’t you contact them again?

When I got my re-home dog he took a solid six months to really feel he was at home with us in our house.. He did not come from a difficult background and had no bad early experiences (he had simply been bereaved of his first nice owner), but despite a good start in life he still took 6 months before he regarded us as family (and we went on to enjoy a further 11 lovely years with him), you could tell from his behaviour, he just sort of 'relaxed' at 6 months.
I think 4 months is not enough for your dog to feel secure, and given the dog will have missed a lot of positive socialising and maybe was shown cruelty, you will have stuff to unravel before he can be the family dog you want.
Hopefully you can be his forever home, but the more positive training you can do the better your chances so don't be afraid to get help.

Unfortunately as a dog walker, I see this issue a lot with foreign rescue dogs.

Yes, I'm sure loads of people will come along and tell me about how perfect their rescue is and I'm sure some are fabulous but many will have never lived in homes or had any experience with living in a family situation or being walked on a lead before etc.

I would go back to your behaviourist and tell them what problems you're having and see what they think. All the issues you describe can be dealt with but it takes time, persistence, consistency and a lot of experience.

Only you can decide whether you have the time and knowledge to help this dog. It's also okay to admit you're not the right home for him and that you made a mistake - far better to do that than to keep him in a home where his owners are struggling for the rest of his life.

It's also worth thinking about how much management you're able to do - can you muzzle train him and keep him leashed and muzzled on walks to prevent him doing any damage if he was to go for a stranger, for example? Can you set your home up to limit his opportunities to resource guard? Can your family and children be trained to approach him correctly and work with him also?

It's not an easy one and I do sympathise. Good luck with whatever you decide

We had a romy rescue and we absolutely adored her but she was super reactive. She would bark at anyone who approached the house other than family who she knew.

She would bark at runners, cyclist, buses, vans, anyone in a hat etc etc.

She liked some dogs but she was quick to react if she felt threatened in any way.

She was super friendly with most people but tried to bite 2 people, she had no teeth so she couldn't do any damage, but the intention was there.

Like I said, we adored her and circumstance meant we could keep her thankfully but it could have gone so wrong. After she passed we didn't even consider another rescue for the reasons above and we got a pup instead.

If you got him as a puppy then maybe his issues are nothing to do with him being romanian and more to do with him now being adolescent and harder work

Ours is a Romanian rescue, got at six-ish months also. Not at all reactive with people, but has some anxiety and stress issues even three years later. Ive always been a bit resistant to medicating him, but actually a few experts in street dogs have recommend prozac and we're now working with a behavioural vet to get this. It might be something you can consider - it'll need to be taken for 9 months to a year and allows you to work on the behaviours. It'll shorten his fuse apparently and reduce the stress.

I don't know if he's a candidate for it, but behavioural vets seem to be the ones that can advise/prescribe. Our vet refused as it's a special skill to get a good balance chemically, and might need some adjusting.

How old are your children and how big is he?

Your situation sounds very dangerous, a dog that is aggressively snarling and lunging at slight movement is imo a more serious reaction waiting to happen...

Is he muzzled in the house?

If you can feel you can cope with it I would look at a behaviourist with Romanian/street dog experience but if he was mine, I would PTS.

I know many people would be horrified at that but his behaviour is dangerous and imo only a matter of time before he really hurts someone.
If other previous posts on here about foreign dogs and other social media are anything to go by the ‘rescue’ probably won’t take him back and if they do he’ll just passed on to the next unsuspecting person.

Money should be poured into neuter programmes and education and foreign dogs should not be coming over here.

Like a PP said, people will come on and say how nice theirs is but these dogs often have significant and dangerous behavioural issues as a result of their lives on the street/in the pound, the rescues are well know for lying about the dogs problems and offering no help when things go wrong.

Do you know roughly what kind of mix he is - only reason I ask is that a lot of Romanian rescues tend to have livestock guardian shepherd dogs in them to some extent - they can be hypervigilant and wary of people not in their immediate household, if this is a genetic issue (i.e. a selectively bred trait in the breed) it will have to be carefully managed, and some behaviourists may be able to mitigate things a bit but it won't be completely cured.

Do you know roughly what kind of mix he is - only reason I ask is that a lot of Romanian rescues tend to have livestock guardian shepherd dogs in them to some extent
Yup, I met one on a walk some time ago.

6 months old, enormous, the woman could barely control him on lead.
Had no idea whatsoever what he was bred for (she thought he was a sheepdog)
Was horrified when I told her he wouldn’t be fully grown until at least 2.

These ‘rescues’ are not truthful about their dogs.

I often wonder what happened to him.

I would definitely muzzle train him. There are some good videos on YouTube of how to do this. It means if there are situations that you know will be tricky for him (visitors/walks/busy times of day etc) you have an extra level of protection in case his training and other things you have in place don't quite work.

My dog took about 2 weeks to muzzle train and now will put his face in it himself (he think's it's a sort of mobile treat dispenser!). It has given me confidence to walk him around people and train him to be around visitors in the knowledge that the worst he can do it scare someone.

I completely understand how you feel. Ours got worse before he got better- and the improvement only came after about 6 months of weekly behaviourist sessions and a lot of training at home. None of this is easy, especially if you also have caring responsibilities. You should remember that if this is too much for you, it's not your fault and if you need to rehome him you will at least be able to give the next owner an accurate assessment of his needs so only the right person will take him on.

I think if you have a disabled DD and therefore caring commitments above a typical family situation the behaviour this dog is displaying means you are probably not in a position to do right by him. I’m sorry.

I do actually have a foreign rescue and she’s lovely to everyone. But that’s no bearing on your situation. I strongly suspect my dog lived with a family before ending up in the pound, whereas a six-month pup is more likely to have missed out on all the key socialisation they needed.

I’d look for a behaviourist who specialises in rescues, as a PP suggested, and ask really honest questions of them. Some dogs are not suited to some environments, despite best intentions.

This is why it annoys me when mumsnetters constantly push rescue dogs. I think you have to have a very good set up, resources and patience.

@Branleuse

If you got him as a puppy then maybe his issues are nothing to do with him being romanian and more to do with him now being adolescent and harder work

Hmm - while adolescence does mean dogs become a bit difficult, it shouldn't mean severe resource guarding, reactivity to strangers, growling and snarling. That's not normal in a dog of any age.

What OP describes are some pretty severe behavioural issues, not the boundary pushing of doggy adolescence.

“If you can feel you can cope with it I would look at a behaviourist with Romanian/street dog experience but if he was mine, I would PTS.”

Most rescues have a clause saying you can’t do that without consulting them, you’re supposed to return them...

Also, it’s a very young dog that in the right place may well end up fine.

Mine is coming along nicely - but, I live rurally, don’t have a huge amount of visitors and my children are adults... I was always aware he may well have a fair bit of livestock guardian and/or street dog in there and may well show guarding traits because of that. I didn’t expect it to extend to household members, lol, but he’s done really well with that now.

“Do you know roughly what kind of mix he is - only reason I ask is that a lot of Romanian rescues tend to have livestock guardian shepherd dogs in them to some extent - they can be hypervigilant and wary of people not in their immediate household”

Mine was described in a U.K. rescue as possibly a retriever cross I didn’t ever think that was likely, but I know his litter mates who were rehomed younger than him have had similar issues as he has and it’s taken their owners a bit by surprise.

“I would definitely muzzle train him. There are some good videos on YouTube of how to do this.”

Muzzle training is a good idea for any dog, but it can be slow going - for reference, I muzzle trained my Rottweiler in less than a week, this dog I’ve been doing it for about 3 months so far, I’m having to work on him not being collar shy first, again, really common with Romanian dogs due to how their handled over there. He’ll stick his nose in no problem, fastening it is still scary.

@DogBirthday

This is why it annoys me when mumsnetters constantly push rescue dogs. I think you have to have a very good set up, resources and patience.

There’s a huge difference between a U.K. born rescue dog and ones from other countries...

There is a huge difference potentially between uk rescues and foreign rescues. Having said that, we've got to know a huge number of people that have Romanian, Spanish, Cypriot rescues etc and they're lovely, no issues at all. We have had some issues with our foreign rescue but mostly around his fear and anxiety - we're still working on those but in many ways he's the perfect dog. Our rescue didn't leave us with no support - they provided a free behaviourist for a couple of hours, and they would absolutely have taken him back if it didn't work out. The two women that run it keep the dogs which can't be rehomed- we met them all when we went to collect our little one.

You do need the resources and time to spend in the first 6-8 months. But otherwise he's fab, he travels beautifully with us, sits under the table quietly in pubs, was toilet trained instantly, is very gentle and lovely with children. Hates strange men, loud noises etc, and took a long time to warm up to us. But if I got another dog I'd get another rescue for sure and probably another street dog now I've got some experience with them

If you’re on FB, join the group Dog Training Advice and Support and read all their guides, which are invaluable.

However. I’m not judging you, as you’re clearly trying to do the right thing by this dog. I do think though you’re probably very out of your depth. As a novice dog owner you should have got a pedigree puppy from a reputable breeder, and chosen a breed which is relatively undemanding - a border terrier or something might suit your lifestyle. I am a very experienced dog owner and I have to say, I would think twice about a Romanian rescue in terms of the amount of work involved. I would consider rehoming in your situation.

Take a look at the Facebook group ‘dog training advice and support’ - it’s a really good group with detailed guides written for commons problems and there’s experts commenting / giving advice.

There’s a long guide about rescue dogs.

Thanks for all your replies.

I realise now that I was naive in assuming lots of love, food, walks and socialisation would fix everything. I do not want a dog that has to be muzzled or forever walked on a line.

I have always considered a dog to be life enhancing, a joy to have in a family which outweighed the hard work.

FYI my children are adults but my disabled daughter has very high care needs which have to be put first but means the time I can devote to addressing all the dog issues are squashed into a few hours when I have time and means that what I had hoped in taking my daughter and the dog out for walks to the park and her being involved has gone out the window- I cannot control her wheelchair and a nervous dog at the same time so I have to leave her at home to take the dog out.I have been in touch with the rescue but as they are run by volunteers they haven’t offered anymore than sympathy and suggest I engage a behaviourist. It was stipulated in the adoption contract that the dog is returned to them in the event of the placement failing.

I know returning the dog could well set him back, and further damage his trust in humans. But realise he could possibly be happier somewhere else. We are a household of 5 and so he is never left on his own and I saw this as a positive but now think for such a nervous dog it is too many people to relate to. I am torn whether to persevere as with time he has the making of a fantastic dog maybe just a little bit longer and the right strategies in place or to just accept that we could be a good family for a dog but just not this dog.

Have a look at Facebook and join the "Reactive dogs UK (RDUK member support and professional advice) group.
The admins and members offer a huge amount support and advice. There are lots of members with Rommie rescues who can also share their experiences with you. I have a reactive dog and this group has been a godsend for me.
Good luck

I think its about time importing dogs from abroad was banned. A lot of those dogs are extremdly badly behaved. And the dogs are not suitable as family pets.

“I am torn whether to persevere as with time he has the making of a fantastic dog maybe just a little bit longer and the right strategies in place or to just accept that we could be a good family for a dog but just not this dog”

The thing is, you could get some help, work out what needs to be done, see if you’re up to it and see how he responds and you’ve still got the option of deciding it’s not going to work out and returning him.

Are you in touch with the rescue? Have they suggested anything? Or have anyone they’d recommend to work with?

And honestly, loads of people are naive about whats involved with a Romanian rescue, even I was and he’s not my first rescue or my first dog with issues.

I realise now that I was naive in assuming lots of love, food, walks and socialisation would fix everything. I do not want a dog that has to be muzzled or forever walked on a line.

But neither of those things are bad things. I know they may not be what you imagined from dog ownership, but it's far better for dogs to be kept safe with muzzles and leads, than it is for them to be let off when it's not safe.

It sounds like you had a bit of a romanticised view of dog ownership, to be honest. I don't really mean that badly - many people have this view of nice, long walks with a well-behaved, off-lead dog trotting along next to them, but it takes a lot of work to get even a "regular" dog to that point, let alone a foreign rescue with an unknown background that suffers from reactivity and resource guarding issues.

A muzzle will mean you can relax a bit more. Your dog can't bite someone if it has a muzzle on, after all. Muzzles aren't bad things. Responsible owners of reactive dogs muzzle up.

Definitely try an SSRI like Prozac if you can also. Maybe a consult with a behavioural vet who has worked with street dogs before, to see if they think it'd help in your case.

Does he have a quiet place in the house to go, that's just his? Ours loves a quiet dark small space he retreats to when things get a bit much. For the first 6-8 months we had a fabric crate.

Also we were told to do brain training games to distract and focus him and increase the bonding with different family members - scent work with games like 'go find' - hide various treats around for him to sniff out, on different levels, with lots of praise when he finds etc. Make it harder when he gets better at it by tying them in a sock or putting in a cardboard box etc. Playing with rope toys, pulling back and forth with him. They need their brains focusing and tiring out so they're less highly strung and anxious

I would say just stick it out until he turns 18 months/2 years old and see how you feel by then. Get the behaviourist back and follow their advice. Puppies go through a teenage stage where recall goes out the window, they can suddenly become more aware and nervous of the world around them and they really push boundaries. This happens to most pups without having a difficult start in life. Please stick it out until he at least matures.