Unsure how to manage puppy/dog interactions

[Powertothepetal]

I have a nearly 9 year old bitch and a 11 week old puppy.

They get on fine but the puppy has truly lost all his fear of my older dog, he runs after her constantly and nips and hangs onto her legs when she’s running/playing.
I do put him in his crate when he does this but he does not get the message.
She growls a little but he ignores her.

When she is settling down to sleep I often have to pick up the puppy and calm him down and get him to sleep away from her because left to his own devices he’s climbing on her head and chewing her toes and mouth.
She makes some gentle attempts to stop him like putting her head or paw on him to hold him down, some gentle growls, a lot of whining.

In the ‘early days’ she did discipline properly, she scared him so badly he yelped twice when he was biting her but now she seems properly bonded to him and not wanting to be mean with him so seems to put up with his bad behaviour and mostly whines for me to save her 😐

The older dog has also started pushing him around, literally using her nose to push him around he floor and I am unsure if this annoyance or play as she used to play like this with our old cat but there’s a lot of whining and soft growling going on.

Any help?!

i have the same combination so just watching and bumping

🤞🏻

It’s hard, I’ve never had two dogs and I assumed she would just tell him off if he overstepped the mark, especially as she isn’t a particularly tolerant bitch, quite the opposite!
She’s actually often reactive towards dogs she doesn’t know.

She was telling him off initially but it’s all changed now and I feel bad for her.

I don’t know how to make him polite if she won’t discipline him properly as redirecting onto toys and time outs plain aren’t working, DH tells the puppy off but then my old girl gets confused thinking he’s telling her off!

It's not your original dogs job to discipline your pup. You should be keeping them separate for most of the time so that the pup doesn't annoy the other dog. Get your self on to Facebook dog training advice and support and read their units on introducing a new dog .

It's not your original dogs job to discipline your pup
Everything I read about pups and older dogs said older dogs were the best teachers and you should let them tell the puppy off

You should be keeping them separate for most of the time so that the pup doesn't annoy the other dog
They are!
They are walked together and have set nap times, the puppy is only awake for relatively short periods of time throughout the day.
But when he is awake, if he isn’t eating he is playing with toys and often, pestering my other dog.

Get your self on to Facebook dog training advice and support and read their units on introducing a new dog
I’ll look at this thank you

Some dogs will correct puppies effectively, but if I was in your position, I'd definitely 100% continue to step in every single time your older dog doesn't correct him enough for him to stop. I know it's tiring!

I adopted my dog at 8 months old. He did exactly the same thing that your pup is doing, when he was in his original home. He'd constantly pester and hang off the existing older dog, and the dog didn't consistently correct him.

Unfortunately, his original owner didn't step in at all. She even left them in the same pen together whenever she went out. Things got out of hand, and that's why she decided to rehome him.

I'm not saying that to alarm you! Just that I've seen what can happen if it goes left uncorrected. His original owner thought she was doing the right thing leaving them to it.

I would continue to remove pup from your older dog any time he pesters her too much. If at all possible, you might want to try only having them together in small doses, basically to try to avoid the escalation? So like, 5-15 minutes, then separate them? Basically, the longer puppy can behave, the longer puppy can stay out. That's the hope.

Also - just out of curiosity. Have you tried doing some one-to-one playing / training / etc. with puppy before letting him have access to your older dog? Wondering if it might help take the edge off.

Another thing you could try would be puzzles and kongs etc. when pup is in his crate (if you're not already doing that). My thinking is the more you can stimulate the puppy, the less likely he'll be to obsess over your older dog. :)

For the third time in my life I have recently (well, in July) taken on a puppy while having an older dog. Without exception the puppies have always been pretty rough with the older dog, as you describe. A special favourite with all of them has also been cannoning full pelt into the older dog, using them as buffers essentially. Being constantly annoying, biting, jumping up at the older dog, generally bahaving like an overactive toddler has been par for the course. Cheer up. They grow out of it! I tend to leave them to it because I can see that, a lot of the time, the older dog is enjoying the play, but she will get cross if she's had enough (she is very mild mannered and wouldn't bite though). I make sure she can always have a place to herself though - easy at the moment because the puppy is too small to jump on the sofa, where she (older dog) escapes to. I might put him in the crate if he's being really bad, but that's usually because he's overtired. Also, when he gets too overbearing with the other dog I will push him away quite firmly then distract him with a thrown toy. He has got the message now that doing this essentially means 'go and play on your own'. They are fed in separate rooms and the puppy is crated in the bedroom at night, (and also goes to sleep in his second crate downstairs, so I can shut the door if necessary, although it's usually open) so I make sure the older dog has plenty of peace and quiet.
There are plenty of dog beds around, but they show no sign of sharing. In fact none of my pairs of dogs have wanted to share beds or cuddle together. Jealousy has been a problem with all of them too. I sometimes feel more like a referee. But, as I say, it will pass in time. Really, don't worry about it overmuch.
PS a really good walk and play guarantees a bit of peace and quiet!

I would never ever leave the older dog to discipline the puppy. For many reasons.

Use gates to keep the dogs separate unless supervised by you.

Distract and remove the puppy and be your older dogs advocate.

If older dog is happy to play allow short play sessions but really short.

Your puppy will learn more bad habits and poor dog socialisation skills if they are allowed to mug the older dog.

Your older dog will just get peed off!

There is very little benefit to you and your puppy's relationship if your older dog is the focus of their play - that needs to be you for good training and bonding.

Its up to your eldest dog to teach puppy her boundaries. The only way I would ever step in is if a fight was getting out of hand. Otherwise leave them both be. They are dogs and have dog ways of doing things. Human misread dogs so often and make things worse. Your eldest hitch will handle herself trust that. She might happily be the number 2 once your pup has grown. She knows what she is doing stop worrying

Thank you everyone, to answer some of the points raised.

The dogs are not really ‘together’ all that much really.

They wake up around 6, have breakfast and are together until around 7 when the puppy usually has a nap ready to leave at 8.10 for a walk.
We get back an hour or so later and both dogs go toilet and settle down to sleep, usually until about 12/12.30 then when they wake up they are fed again.

They are together again until about 2 when they both go to sleep again ready for another walk at 3, back at 4.

Together for about an hour or so until I feed them dinner, usually awake another hour or so, 6.30/7 they tend to sleep again, brief wake up around 9/9.30 then to bed at 10 where the puppy goes into his crate.

So all in all, they are only properly together about 4 - 5 hours split into small hour or so segments.

They sleep cuddled up together sometimes and my older girl doesn’t seem to mind at all.

I can’t separate via gates as the puppy is so tiny he can actually fit through the bars!!!

I do have a downstairs crate and I do put the puppy in it for short periods if he’s harrassing her.

The dogs are trained together, he is already getting good at sitting and waiting politely outside the school, shops etc.
He can do some tricks but tbh, he isn’t at all biddable and handler focused like my girl is.

He’ll only perform tricks if he’s hungry and while my girl loves to play with people, the puppy likes to play with toys independently, he will not bring toys back, he just likes to bounce around by himself shaking the toys or play tug but even then, after a while he wants the toy to himself.

Frankly, the puppy isn’t affectionate at all really, he wants to come up and sleep on your lap for naps and he runs and greets people joyfully but he isn’t into stroking and cuddles like my girl is.

What breeds are they?
An hours walk twice a day sounds far too much for an 11 week old puppy. The general rule of thumb is 5 minutes per month of age- so around 15 minutes for your pup. Especially with large breed dogs, as too much exercise can put a lot of stress on their joints.
Things like snuffle mats, licki mats, puzzle feeders and kongs can be great for keeping pups occupied for a while. You can use some of his daily food allowance as treats to get him working for his food. Mental stimulation will help tire him out, so hopefully he will be less full on with your older girl.
Let her discipline him, but always step in if either dog is getting too rough.
Puppies are bloody hard work, but I’m sure you will get there in the end!

The older one is a collie and the little one a chihuahua.
He doesn’t walk the full way and spends some of it in my arms but I don’t follow the 5 minute per month, I did for my collie when she was little but when I researched it more I couldn’t find any evidence in support of it.