German Shepherd Puppy Advice/ Existing Reactive Dog

[Colin56]

Hello All,
I'm currently an owner of two rescues - an 8 year old lurcher rescue and a GSD X who is 7 years old and also a rescue. Both spayed.
We got the GSD as a last ditch home effort after 5 previous foster homes for her fell through. She had been dumped as a puppy, lost an eye and was very terrified. We got her at 6 months and she was terrified. After a lot of work and training she is now a nice dog, great with kids, recall etc. Given her past we had no opportunity to shape her early months so the only downside of that is that she can be reactive to other dogs (out of fear I guess). About three years ago she and the lucher clashed and we ended up in vets, operation on lurcher etc. At that point I got a dog beahviourist in and our vet as the question was 'Should we put her to sleep' - both said no and behaviourist said to work on exercises and boundaries etc, all good to date. No agression and everyone is happy. Not best friends now but fine with no tension and living together. We are on a farm so lots of time to be seperate and burn off energy.

Now we are looking at getting a GSD puppy from a working line - we have thought about it for a while, done research, hip scores, elbows etc. Breeder has puppies and we can see in a few weeks. I'm now getting cold feet... I'd consider myself a confident and experienced owner and have done rehab work with lurchers for years but really - should I be getting a puppy at all?
If I do should it be a bitch or a dog?
I personally think a dog as less likelihood for fights with other two but maybe a dog is more forceful, driven and less sociable with people as a rule?

I explained this to breeder who probably thinks I am over thinking it and said he has 4 x bitches and a dog and its all fine but I think they all were socialised and grew up together - not the same as having a dog that has been reactive.

Sorry this is so long. Very interested in hearing views from GSD owners and behaviourists if anyone can offer help.

Thanks v. much.

Sorry should have said above - breeder has four bitches and a dog - all adults and fine and his point was that the sexes mix easily. (Not referring to the the litter I am going to see which has a mix of both)

I don't think you should add another dog into your situation.

Your dogs have already fought once to the point of putting one of them in the vets. What happens if your current GSD turns on the puppy? The consequences don't even bear thinking about.

I honestly think you should stick with the two you have until the GSD passes over rainbow bridge. She's reactive to dogs and has been badly aggressive - please don't bring another puppy into this.

I also think adding a puppy to your current dog family would not be at all helpful.
For her to fall out seriously with your lurcher to such a serious extent would worry me as to how restrained she can be, obviously she's prepared to fight, a pup would not stand a chance.

We've had adult dogs (GDS/labs/Grets and (same) pups through the house and ALWAYS the pups end up having their "puppy licence" endorsed by one of the adults, a bark, a grumble, a shove and a roll to the boisterous pups and that's them told off.
It doesn't look like your girl does warnings.

I think you would be crazy and also selfish if you got another dog.

You are putting your desire for a puppy above the welfare of your existing dog.

Having a reactive dog means making sacrifices, and not getting a cute puppy is one of them.

We had a reactive very antisocial ddog. Circumstances meant we got another adult ddog.. Not a complete stranger to ddog though and she accepted her . Couple of years later a dpuppy. Ddog was surprisingly OK.... Thinking on the relationships now op how strong would you say they are?

We have 4 ddogs but sadly the miserable buggar was pts last year.. Our 4 have fantastic relationships with each other...
Never anticipated it would work so well.

Thank you both. Fair points above.
When the fight happened I was really surprised as I thought I was a good judge of the GSD. I was not there when it happened - my wife was so I don't know the lead up. I knew the GSD was stressed with other dogs in public but because we have a farm it was not a problem as she could be here and relaxed and not have to face other dogs in walks etc. I doubted my knowlege at that point. In talking with the behavourist afterwards we really did talk through the kindest opton but she said that it as not classic reaction and the lurcher from her view was being passive agressive and the GSD felt threatened and lashed out. I wish I had seen it as then I would know if ther was a warning, was it a slowly escalating situation etc.

I know the GSD has done this before but not since and if anything is more laid back. I asked a friend tonight who has Malinois and GSD and he suggested that it would be OK, puppy would be socialised, GSD is not going around looking for scraps and is older. But I'm still not sure. I'd like to ask the dog behaviourist that I dealt with before for her recall of the situation and thoghts since. Happy to hear any further thoughts too.

@Brollywasntneededafterall

We had a reactive very antisocial ddog. Circumstances meant we got another adult ddog.. Not a complete stranger to ddog though and she accepted her . Couple of years later a dpuppy. Ddog was surprisingly OK.... Thinking on the relationships now op how strong would you say they are? We have 4 ddogs but sadly the miserable buggar was pts last year.. Our 4 have fantastic relationships with each other... Never anticipated it would work so well.

Thanks @Brollywasntneededafterall Hmmm. I think the GSD is very chilled out now. No sign of pushing, competitiveness etc. We radically changed things after the fight. No shared feeding space, shared walks but no competitive elements/ potential resource tussles, also both dogs used to sleep in utility so now both go to separate rooms and lurcher has a bed upstairs where GSD cannot go. So its been pretty peaceful. The beahaviourist was surprisingly pragmatic at the time. Just said it was unfortunate, we should change and the dynamic would change and it would be fine. The GSD is fine now even with friends visiting dogs outside (dont really have them inside) and on walks in countryside if meeting other dogs she is always on lead and I make her sit and wait until threy have passed. It all seems to help.

I wouldn't. GSDs are really sensitive dogs and they take the lead from other dogs, too. You could very well find that GSD pup takes on the reactivity from GSD senior and they turn together on the lurcher. Similarly, the big GSD could turn on the little GSD.

If you've only managed to get peace after eight years, is it really worth risking it all going wrong?

I wouldn't recommend a pup at all however if you do I would go for a male. Bitches are all about the fight, males are more about posturing. Then again that's pack theory which is outdated but as a 30+ year owner it works for me.

I’ve had lots of rescue GSD as I used to foster and rehab them but I would be wary bringing a puppy into this mix. I’ve found most GSD to be very family orientated and even the most reactive ones outside have not been aggressive to ‘family’ which would make me think she potentially has more problems than your standard reactive wimpy shepherd.

Saying that, if you did go ahead I would go for a male. I’ve currently got 2 boys (not GSD) and one GSD bitch who rules the roost. I find the boys easier, cuddlier and less likley to overthink. I think all of my male GSD have been nicer and less dramatic if you can ride the adolescence storm. I haven’t had issues with stranger aggression, no more so than a female and I think temperament is the main factor for this type of behaviour rather than sex.

I would also think about the impact on the puppy behaviourally. Constantly being told off or nit picked at can cause problems so it would really depend on how your existing dog would behave. In my experience of my males all of them will happily accept being told off occasionally but I think they would all retaliate at adolescence if they felt it was unjustified- they are more intelligent than I gave them credit for and you would need a very passive dog to accept that.

Thanks @Maneandfeathers Good info there. I will call the behaviourist and see if she can give an opinion. I do think the existing dog is quite chilled out now. I think around the time of the attack she was wound up by spending time with the lurcher 24/7 - the big thing the behaviourist said was to take them both out of the same room for sleeping so they had neutral 'get away' space.
I do also have to say the lurcher can reallly key other dogs up - tail held high, quite full on and the behaviourist pointed this out saying it definitely contributed.
There was, up to a year ago a third dog - a lurcher male who was pts at age 15 also a rescue and there was never an issue with him ever. so maybe its bitch/ bitch thing or just an unfortunate period that ended badly. I absolutely wold never bring a puppy in if I thought it would be not good for them and its possible to wait until the GSD has gone to the big dog park in the sky and then get a puppy as someone wisely pointed out above. The breeder did not seem too concerned when I talked this through and he is very experienced with most of his dogs going to search & rescue, police, competition etc so knows a good bit.

I’ve definitely found all of my boys easier than the girls. I’ve had 2 recent females and both have been feistier for want of a better word.

I’ve currently got a GSD bitch who can be mildly reactive and got a puppy a year ago (different easier breed!) and I’ve still had to work very hard so that he didn’t pick up any of her habits. She did get a bit more protective of the puppy for the first few months and then he did try and copy a few times once he got to the teenage stage. Seperate walks and lots of training later and I’m through the worst but there were moments of what have I done
I think there’s always the risk the behaviours would rub off on eachother but at the same time having a calm male has calmed down the female slightly so it has worked both ways!

Thanks to all and @Maneandfeathersane for advice. I'm going to meet the behaviouirist this week and she is happy to discuss it with me. It might be that this is not the right time to get a puppy but we will know more soon.