Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

3 litters in 16 months?? Surely that's cruel?

24 replies

overbreeding · 07/09/2021 20:24

My dog is less than a year and a half old. The mother has just had her third litter of puppies-my dogs litter being the first (or so I was told), so 3 litters in less than a year and a half. Is that not cruel?
Probably also worth adding my dog has a congenital condition which the breeder is aware of. What can I do?
I thought I had bought ethically, I am aware of puppy farms and people exploiting animals, so was very anxious about buying responsibly and I genuinely believed the person I bought from had the dogs best interest at heart and that it was a one off litter. I feel really cross with myself for unintentionally supporting this and cross that the person is clearly just going to keep breeding the dogs (worse yet due to the fact at least one of the puppies is not healthy, so I can only imagine there must be more who are also unwell).
Can I report this somewhere?

OP posts:
overbreeding · 07/09/2021 21:10

Anyone?

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 07/09/2021 21:14

Bit late now. You bought from somewhere dodgy. It’s shit.
The only people who might take action is if they aren’t paying tax.

CMOTDibbler · 07/09/2021 21:14

That's vile. How could anyone do that to a dog? Unfortunately I don't think its illegal, though they would need a council license so you could check that

Bananapuppy · 07/09/2021 21:15

Report to the local authority. A one off litter does not require a license. More definitely does.

Bananapuppy · 07/09/2021 21:16

Oh, cross post @CMOTDibbler- sorry!

overbreeding · 07/09/2021 21:28

@CMOTDibbler Exactly!!
I feel so stupid, the amount of research I did about how to spot puppy farms and unethical breeding etc, to have fallen for the act and lies. I just scrolled through messages from breeder, one saying they'll have the dog done to prevent overbreeding following the second litter being born just a few months after the first-absolute rubbish. Breeder has made £20k in just over a year, they'll probably keep doing it. They also recently bought another female puppy which I thought was strange as why not keep one of their own dogs puppies, they'll probably be breeding that one too. Heartless! I know I can't do anything about the three litters already born but how to stop the poor mother being overbred, she's a living creature not a machine. Surely there must be some rules in place? I can't find anything online besides having to have a licence from your local council if you breed more than once. What about the dogs welfare and health?

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 07/09/2021 21:33

Unfortunately the only way to protect the breeding bitches is for people to buy from responsible breeders only. They are few and far between.
How did you find them? Complain to the breed club or KC if registered.

NorthLodgeAvenue · 07/09/2021 21:37

Poor poor thing

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 07/09/2021 21:43

Breed club
Local council
HMRC

If your puppy has a congenital condition, is it recessive? If it is, has the breeder used the same stud?

Ylvamoon · 07/09/2021 22:19

Yeh right, there are at least 6 months between seasons...

overbreeding · 07/09/2021 22:40

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman same parents for all litters, they own both parents.
Another female pup was bought by them instead of keeping one of their dogs puppies, so I'm assuming they'll do the same with that one and use the male as stud.
Second litter was apparently an accidental litter, which I found hard to believe but now a third litter...it's clearly definitely deliberate.

OP posts:
overbreeding · 07/09/2021 22:48

@Ylvamoon unfortunately true. My dog was born just over a year ago, second litter was end of last year and I've just seen an advert for the third litter, says the puppies were born almost a month ago. So back to back pregnancies.

OP posts:
SlothMama · 08/09/2021 09:48

If the pups are KC registered she can only have 4 litters, but from the sounds of it the greeders don't care.

Poor dog, some people are scum

sandgrown · 08/09/2021 09:58

So a woman at work said her puppies were border/do/staffy/rottie so I said oh mongrels then. I bet they are cute . She was most put out and said they are actually a dogue de Bordeaux/ staffy/ rottie and they will fetch 1200-1500 each . She added well the last lot did ! Obviously just a business transaction. Six puppies in a small flat .

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 08/09/2021 17:02

Owning both parents can be a bit of warning.

Personally I like to know that the breeder has looked for a stud who will complement the bitch in terms of conformation, character and so on.

Londoner10 · 08/09/2021 18:18

Can I ask what breed you have as I’m in a similar situation. I did a lot of research and thought my breeder was responsible but it seems they just keep breeding too. They too own both mum and dad of my puppy.

runwithme · 08/09/2021 18:22

This is interesting as we are looking at our options and we know someone who has used their own dogs to breed. I never thought it would be preferable to have the stud from elsewhere.

Can I ask, how many litters is "too much" and what would be the optimum gap between births?

ErrolTheDragon · 08/09/2021 19:15

but from the sounds of it the greeders don't care.

If that was a typo, it was an apt one.

HDready · 08/09/2021 19:18

I thought the KC would only register litters from the same bitch born at least 11 months apart. No help if they’re not KC registered

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 08/09/2021 19:42

Can I ask, how many litters is "too much" and what would be the optimum gap between births?
My own view is that three is the reasonable maximum (beyond this, you start to compound issues of the loss of genetic material within a breed by not breeding enough of the bitches - similarly, using a sire too many times is also short-sighted). The KC will register up to four litters from the same bitch. The KC also encourages breeders to allow at least a year between whelpings, but this is not a firm rule, and also (like the number of registered litters rule) takes no account of any cross-bred or unregistered litters.

Most people I know who breed wait till the bitch is three or four, and breed no more than three litters from her. Some of them will go a long way (Germany, in one case) for a suitable stud.

overbreeding · 08/09/2021 21:14

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman I thought that having both parents was a good thing as they would know for certain the parents temperaments and that they're being well cared for etc...apparently not.

@Londoner10 have you said anything to the breeder? It's horrible isn't it? Are you D by any chance?

@runwithme I mentioned it to our vet after the second litter and if I remember correctly he said they should have waited 18 months.

They're not KC reg as a mixed breed.

I knew something was dodgy after the first litter....Saying they weren't able to book the dogs in for the op due to Covid. Advertising male dog as a stud dog despite promising he was going to be done. Second litter confirmed my fears and third litter, well, it's just shocking really.

OP posts:
GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 08/09/2021 21:51

I thought that having both parents was a good thing as they would know for certain the parents temperaments and that they're being well cared for etc...apparently not.
It's one of those things where 'it depends'. One of our dogs was a farm terrier, bred for ratting round the barns. Her breeder owned both sire and dam, who were unpedigreed and unrelated, and who were bred for the breeder to keep a puppy or two to continue the good work with the rodents, and for the rest to be sold at zero profit to local families. I didn't have an issue with that.

Breeding pedigree dogs within a closed stud books isn't quite the same. You're breeding towards a breed standard in terms of appearance and, in the case of working dogs, of ability as well. You want a stud who isn't too closely related to your bitch, and who will, you hope, counteract her faults and build on her good points.

bunnygeek · 09/09/2021 12:56

Definitely give your local Council a call. 3 or more litters a year is a licensable activity. That might give her a wake up call (but sadly probably not)

fitflopqueen · 09/09/2021 13:13

I bet she isn't declaring that income to HMRC so let them know.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page