Is this “Excessive” Biting?

[AbandonGups]

We have a 10 week old cocker spaniel here. Had him for 2 weeks. We have the help of a behaviourist in place for 1:1s and have been ensuring plenty of good quality naps and routine to try and help manage his behaviour and energy / stimulation levels. He’s doing very well with good in-crate naps. There is however NEVER any time he’s awake that he’s not running at me and biting me. I’m now in panic mode. I wouldn’t leave him with the children (10 & 8), but equally I feel I can’t even turn my back - I’m constantly calling him off them. I feel like we never have any “nice” time with him. The children are pretty much now staying away as they’re scared. They can’t even stay in same room as puppy often charges at their feet when sitting on the sofa or clothes when they’re walking past.
He’s great with toileting, over night sleeping, a few basic commands etc, but the biting feel excessive and aggressive (while I know it’s probably isn’t).
We’re doing everything the trainer says, but I don’t think it’s changing anything and she says she feels this is excessive.
I can’t take months of this. I’m now back on anxiety meds as worry the puppy blues are going to be v damaging.
I feel like an utter failure. Not q sure why I’m posting…. at the moment I’m just so scared that this has all gone wrong and the best thing all round would be to ask breeder to take him back and find a home ASAP who can manage him (with no children). What a fuck up I’ve made.
The breeder is excellent btw - v experienced and provided a wonderful environment and did a great job socialising him before he came home to us. It’s us who’ve got it wrong.

I don't have experience with spaniels but I've heard plenty of people who have them say that the puppy biting stage is quite intense with cockers. So pretty normal for them I think. Our own terrier did a lot of nipping and mouthing when he was very little. I'm sure someone who knows cocker spaniels well will be along soon to give you some more advice but I think if you're working with a trainer/behaviourist then you're already doing the right thing.

Get some bitter apple spray for trousers and shoes. It'll put him off when he does nip and help you divert to other things.

Puppy pen and/or child gates so you can separate.

I have a 12 week old cocker spaniel. When he's overtired or overstimulated he gets bitey and we just pop him into his pen (with a chew and there's toys, bed etc in there) just for a minute or two to calm down.

His teeth are giving him issues and he's playing, it's how puppies play. If you can divert him to a puppy Kong, chews and toys then that might help him focus on those and not ankles cos it bloody hurts! Frozen carrots, and lots of different textured things to chew on.

Cardboard boxes/kitchen roll tubes etc are your friend. Mine loves shredding them and I've yet to meet an spaniel that doesn't.

They're known as cockerdiles for a reason but they do grow out of it. Just gotta hang on til they do!!

It sounds relatively normal to me. Not fun or ideal, but normal.

Have you taught your children (and yourself) to be like a tree? So when the biting starts, they need to stand up, fold their arms and turn away. No attention of any kind - even eye contact.

Some people advocate squealing but honestly it made mine ten times worse 😳 we ignored him and popped him in time out (behind a baby gate) to calm down. He soon learned that biting stops play.

I would also make sure he has loads of age appropriate chews - so at 10 weeks I'd be looking at things like stuffed kongs mainly, or JRPetProducts do a great natural chew selection for very young puppies.

Puppies communicate with their mouths - it's up to us to teach them what mouthing behaviour is and isn't acceptable. It does ease off eventually but in my experience it'll be a good 6-9 months before it stops for good as you have teething to get through first

They're known as land sharks for a reason!

I have had the grand total of one cocker spaniel puppy so my experience is limited. She definitely did bite at that age but certainly not as much as you are describing. What worked for us is as soon as she bit, we stood up, turned around and walked off. She quickly learned that biting = end of fun time. She now doesn’t bite at all.
I hope things work out. They are gorgeous dogs but, as with any, now is a challenging time. It’s worth putting the hard work in though.

You’ve mentioned naps loads but not what you’re doing in terms of exercise. Cocker spaniels need plenty of exercise and stimulation, they are clever dogs. What training are you doing with your puppy, as in how are you keeping its mind active?

I'm no expert but have had many pups and wanted to drop you some support.
If you are using a good trainer/behaviourist then they should be advising you well. I have a now 14 month old that was a rescue. He wasn't as high energy but did nip/mouth a lot (probably too young when he lost mum). Yelling at him, distracting him , ignoring him worked a little but I know it can be exhausting. He's grown out of most of it now but can still try to show affection by "nibbling" you. As much as it doesn't hurt now and is cute we have to get him completely out of teeth on skin!
Have you tried treats in kings and licky mats and all the usual mouth distractions?
Like I say I'm no expert. I find puppies a pain and long for them to be my doggos!

Thank you for replies.
How do you separate them into their pens? Or leave the room without being “attacked” further by making yourself a moving target? We have a pen around his crate, but trying to pick him up while he’s “going for me” is impossible- he reaches around to bite my arms and hands too. Do you just take firm hold and put them in?
He then creates hell to be let out, but I guess I need to accept that? In fact - as soon as I open the gate he charges at my calves!!

Yes - you do just have to be firm and accept that you can't avoid the bites completely.

If he wears a collar you could try having him on a very light house line so you can use that to encourage him into his pen or into another room.

I know a lot of people who wore wellies round the house when their dogs were pups so any ankle biting was relatively pain free

Thank you - that’s an important point. I was worried we’d overwhelmed him with too much sometimes. In every awake time we’ve been doing a little training, playing and scattering things for him to find. Lots of cardboard boxes and bottles to play with. Plus taking him for little walks in our arms to see the local area.

I would also agree with PP who say you've picked a breed that is very intelligent but also very bitey as a puppy.

I would focus on lots of calm and brain training/games if possible. You don't mention kongs or chews in any of your posts - are you not using them?

Apologies- yes, lots of kongs, chews and licki mats in use!
I’ve been using them in his pen / crate to try and calm him.

Different breed here (Shiba Inu) he was awful for biting, he started at about 14 weeks and was relentless until about 20 weeks, he got much better after that but there was the odd bit of biting until he was a year.

As soon as he bit I would put him in his pen, yes I would be bitten in the process, but less than I would if I’d have left him free to bite.

He had puzzle games, mental stimulation from us etc, but at 5:30pm everyday he became the devil for an hour, even if he was on a walk. He hated being ignored, so he’d go in his pen and we’d keep our backs turned to him, as soon as he had calmed down a bit one of us would sit with him and reward nice, gentle behaviour etc.

He used to bite so hard, he once bit through the bit of stretchy skin between your thumb and index finger. During his main bitey phase there were times that I really didn’t like him at all.

We’ve had him just over a year, he now has great bite inhibition, he’ll mouth us when we wrestle etc, hes very gentle with it, gentle taking treats etc.

Yeah I get nipped putting him in the pen but it works a treat just to hit the reset button. We also try and ignore the biting but often we have found its because he wants to play and a tuggy toy session can help.

He goes in the pen for a minute or two, but I do get nipped on the way in. And when being a tree sometimes. It's just the way things are til the adult teeth come in.

Yeah it's normal. Honestly some people shouldn't get dogs

Please rehome to a reputable rescue to someone who knows dogs

I have a sprocker so half cocker and have similar issues. The bitter apple spray works well. I spray my ankles and slippers! The play pen also works well for a reset - and yes I get bitten trying to get her in it!

I've found playing tug really helps too. Buy a longish rope toy or use a dressing gown belt if you have an old one. You can then play tug without fear of having your fingers bitten.

Get your kids to wear wellies in the house to protect their lower legs. If the pup bites, they won't then shriek which would encourage the pup.

Sorry you're going through this.

I’m realising this now. I hadn’t understood the impact it could have on MH.
It’s been a year in the planning and I feel I’ve messed up in the reality.
DH and DC obviously want to keep trying. I’m not sure I have the capacity to. My whole being aches when I see the children getting hurt. They are very sensible with the dog, but I am constantly fearing the worst.

Hang in there. It will get better. It gets me down sometimes too, and I've had some puppy regrets, but I know it's temporary and she will grow out of it eventually.

You haven't messed up
You can do this
This stage will pass

Things to help can you get you puppy to wear a harness and a house line then when he turns into mad biteybugger gently use the lead to remove him.

If possible stick to a trict routine (usually I hate routine for dogs but this does help) .Meals at set times exercise sessions at set times, relax at set times. A puppy of this age should really have naps every two hours or so in the day time.

Do not sit on the floor ever! - this is great target for the biteybugger!

What specifically has the behaviourist asked you to do?

It's not biting, it's mouthing. Your dog is still a baby and you need to teach him or her what's acceptable.

Behaviourist says distract with toys. There’s nothing however more appealing that we’ve yet found than legs! There’s never any time to do any training or take him to see things as he just immediately starts biting and we get into a to and fro. I now can’t even pick him up without him biting at my face - I’d like to take him out to see things outside. (No 2nd jabs yet)

It is good to distract with toys where possible but as you say not always possible!

Another thing to try is to hold food in your palm under your thumb so he can smell the food but has to work a bit to get it. As he is trying to get the food gently and slowing stroke him. Long slow strokes down his back. This gets him used to being stroked and less likely to bite initially when he sees a hand coming at him.

Also teach him a hand touch. Just put a flat palm near his nose and he will move towards you hand, say a marker word eg yes, and put a treat into your hand to let him eat. This helps to give a new meaning to the value of hands.

As he is a spaniel I would be using all of his food/meal to train BUT do not get tied up on formal training. Throw a bit of his food a short way away from him, he runs to get it and will then turn to you, mark the turn say his name and then he will come to you and you treat him.

So basically you are throwing some of his food out and then feeding when he comes back to you - this is the beginning of recall. It also helps in that it will tire him out and give you a bit more peace.

As he gets used to your hands meaning food you will then be able to lure him into sit positions, middle positions etc and do more formal training if you wish.

A very long toy is good to stop him biting you feet and legs as you move.

Re carrying to take him outside can you carry him like a "log" so rather than have him upright and face near your face can you carry him horizontally across your tummy? He is then more likely to bite your clothes(!) than your face. He may find the environment more interesting when out and that also may help you. But do not go for long at all 5 mins is perfect.

What tends to happy with a bity puppy is that people approach the puppies either tentatively or tend to grab them to avoid being bitten (tbh all very senseible precautions!) however that can also be more exciting and make the puppy more jumpy and then increase the biting and the circle continues.

However saying that you have done nothing to cause this some dogs are just bitey buggers!

Typical cockerdile - it will pass!
Always have a toy to hand - shove into open jaws as needed.
Different textures. Frozen teatowels / muslin cloths were a big hit for teething pain. A selection of harder chews - pizzles for example - and soft stuffed toys. A long plait made from straps of an old towel - tugging seemed to really help teething pain.

The recall game @PollyRoullson suggests is a huge favourite here. One piece of food at a time, I say "find it" then when he returns and sits her get another piece. They catch on so fast and it tires them out whilst you get to sit down!