17 month old dog - should I worry?

[friendsandstrangers]

Could really use some advice, as am really fretting here! We have a 17 month old collie/greyhound cross who we adore. So far she’s seemed like a robust, happy dog - we’re a busy house with 3 kids and (lockdowns aside) fairly sociable. She’s always been great with other dogs and, if anything, over-friendly with people - one of those dogs that bounded over to everyone wagging her tail etc.

However, something has changed and now it’s a different story. I’ve noticed she’s seemed a bit more territorial generally - barking at the doorbell and postman etc, when she didn’t used to. She also got very scared/snappy at the vets about six weeks ago - it had never been an issue before. I didn’t think much about any of this tbh…until now.

We are currently on holiday in the UK and whilst she’s a brilliant traveller and is very happy with lots of walks in a new place, she’s suddenly VERY anxious around strangers. Literally barking and - alarmingly - air snapping at almost anyone who tries to stroke her or even just looks at her! What is going on?! Can anyone reassure me? Is this just second fear stage/being a bit screwy because we’re somewhere new? My DH thinks it’s not a huge concern, but I am flipping out that she’s becoming aggressive. Any wisdom appreciated xx

She could just be very overwhelmed and overstimulated.

Holidays are great fun for us, but look at it from your dogs' point of view - they're suddenly in a new home, their routine is totally out of whack, they're out all day doing lots of exercise and surrounded by lots of strange people and dogs.

However, having said that, the snapping would concern me and I would keep her away from strangers for now. Don't allow anyone to come over and fuss or stroke her. The law changed recently and a dog doesn't need to bite someone to be considered dangerous - if a person feels like they're in danger as a result of your dog, they could report you.

Obviously that's not very likely but it's worth reminding your DH of the potential consequences of her behaviour. All it would take is for her snap to make contact (especially with a child) and you could end up needing to keep her leashed and muzzled for life.

I would recommend reading up on "The Ladder of Aggression" - most dogs display numerous "warning signs" before resorting to snapping - lip licking, displaying the whites of their eyes, looking away, turning their head away and growling are some signs dogs can display before resorting to a snap.

However, if you've ignored her warnings (or accidentally told her off for them) she may feel like she has no choice but to snap, because a snap keeps people away and then she feels safe again (I hope that makes sense!).

I would suggest getting in touch with a behaviourist - if she's injured then it should be covered under her policy. Make sure they're IMDT registered and use positive training techniques :)

It would be worth getting a vet check to rule out a medical cause for this behaviour change.

Thanks so much for responding. I’m really hoping she’s (understandably) overwhelmed by a new environment.

@icedcoffees - so helpful, thank you. She doesn’t show signs of stress before she snaps and barks - the other day we were literally walking through a car park happily and she suddenly took offence at a young boy who passed by her and put his hand out to touch her. (I think people see us walking along with 3 kids and presume she must be fine - and she always has been, until now ☹️) . So worrying. I have read about the second fear stage and do wonder if that’s a factor - she’s big so maturing later.

@Happenchance - thank you. I’ll certainly be consulting a behaviourist should this continue.

I’d love to hear if any other owners experienced anything similar? X

@Happenchance - sorry, I did mean a vet! But I’ll also see a behaviourist, should we need to!

Is she coming into season? Also worth getting her thyroid checked if sudden changes in behaviour.

@WowIlikereallyhateyou - no she’s been neutered already. But interesting about thyroid. I think in retrospect we’ve seen a few escalating signs of nervousness/territorial behaviour over the past few months…but this unfriendliness is certainly new.

She doesn’t show signs of stress before she snaps and barks - the other day we were literally walking through a car park happily and she suddenly took offence at a young boy who passed by her and put his hand out to touch her.

I think in that case, it's really important to pre-empt the situation and protect your dog. I wouldn't want a random person reaching out to touch me, so I don't expect my dog to tolerate it either. If you see people walking close by - move your dog so you're in the way, and if necessary, get her to sit down on the side of the road/path so people can walk past. If someone tries to stroke her, you need to be firm and say "no, please don't fuss her - she doesn't like it".

I've found lots of people like to override dog owners' wishes - you really need to be firm about it. I'm a dog walker and walk a rescue who is very dog-reactive. People always call out "don't worry, my dog is friendly!" to which I respond "well, mine isn't. Please remove your dog". Don't be afraid to body block either if necessary - remember, you are your dogs' voice! :)

@icedcoffees - thanks. It’s difficult because we live in a city and I’m used to taking her on school runs etc. Obviously we’ll manage it however we need to, but our lifestyle really isn’t suited to having a nervous dog

I have a border collie who is still a puppy but I quickly decided that school runs wouldn’t work with her as children approach expecting to pet her on the top of here head which she doesn’t like. And often they don’t ask first. They just boldly come over sometimes in groups all reaching out to pet her.
I decided it was best to leave her at home so as not to overwhelm her. I don’t know if this was the right decision or not as maybe it would be good for her to socialise but I just felt uncomfortable for her.
It’s a shame as my so. Would like to see her at pick up. But I think it is import to manage each interaction for her so she have good experiences with people.

[quote friendsandstrangers]@icedcoffees - thanks. It’s difficult because we live in a city and I’m used to taking her on school runs etc. Obviously we’ll manage it however we need to, but our lifestyle really isn’t suited to having a nervous dog [/quote]
I really wouldn't continue taking a dog that snaps at children on the school run - it sounds like a recipe for disaster :(

It is hard having a reactive dog but the earlier you deal with it, the better. Have a look on IMDT and see if there are any trainers in your area who can help you.

But for now I would try (if possible) to walk her in isolated locations - that might mean getting up an hour early or driving somewhere quiet, but the more she's exposed to the things that upset her, the more likely she is to get stressed and react.

I sympathise as I know it's not easy.

@icedcoffees - I won’t take her on school runs if she continues to seem stressed. The snapping at strangers is new…she was always delighted with kids stroking her before. This is what is so weird about it. However, my instinct tells me that it’s not a medical issue - as she’s fine with us and seeming ‘normal’ otherwise?

[quote friendsandstrangers]@icedcoffees - I won’t take her on school runs if she continues to seem stressed. The snapping at strangers is new…she was always delighted with kids stroking her before. This is what is so weird about it. However, my instinct tells me that it’s not a medical issue - as she’s fine with us and seeming ‘normal’ otherwise?[/quote]
I suspect somewhere along the line she's felt overwhelmed or has had a bad experience and now feels she has no choice but to snap as her previous warnings have been unintentionally ignored.

Personally I don't think dogs (especially puppies) should be on the school run - it's too hectic. Lots of noisy children, busy roads, adults, noise - it's too much.

@icedcoffees - thanks. We haven’t actually done any school runs for months - and even then it wasn’t every day. We prefer to walk her in woodland that is nearby. I can’t think what would have triggered this aggression in all honesty - I couldn’t think of a time her signals may have been ignored. The episode at the vet was the first time she’s ever snapped, and I put it down to her being frightened - but could this have given her a fear of strangers?

Again, this issue seems to have escalated since being on holiday - we only have a few days left which is good. Anyone else have a dog that dislikes new environments?

I think there is a good chance the experience at the vets could have triggered it.
When we went on holiday recently our 6 month old was out of sorts and generally hypersensitive to noises etc. I remember when we got back home she was barking at the noise of the dishwasher which she hadn’t done before. But it did settle again after we had been home a week. I am sure new environment can unsettle them.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.
My old girl simply cannot cope outside of her usual environment. If we go away she goes into kennels. Kennels are familiar and we always use the same one. She doesn't like being left with friends even. She's a collie cross too. Has actually got worse this last year or so - I think me being home a lot more has resulted in separation anxiety in her.

Out of interest when was she spayed?

Agree with vet check and then a trainer now, it may seem like financial overkill but the money spent now whilst the signs have just been noticed (there would have been signs prior to the snapping) will be much better than waiting for it to get worse.

@Beamur - interesting. She actually went to kennels for a week at the start of the summer and was fine with it. It’s odd that was ok but being in a cottage with all of us doesn’t seem to be.

@Newfluff - she was spayed before her first season. Aware there are differing views on when is best for this - we got advice from two different vets who took her breed etc into account.

I’m actually so worried about this I couldn’t sleep last night. Dh is adoring of the dog and putting it down to her age and being in a new place…I am praying he’s right.

Just for more info - she has been friendly to strangers on this holiday when we have been out walking her and she’s been off the lead. Totally fine with other dogs still. The three snapping episodes have been when she’s been on the lead and people have reached out to touch her…

@friendsandstrangers

Just for more info - she has been friendly to strangers on this holiday when we have been out walking her and she’s been off the lead. Totally fine with other dogs still. The three snapping episodes have been when she’s been on the lead and people have reached out to touch her…

So it could be because she feels trapped and can't get away from strangers (because of the lead) or it could be because of the way that people are reaching out to her. Either way, this is a clear argument for not taking her on the school run, because presumably she will be on a lead on the school run and there are likely to be multiple people who want to touch her (some who have touched her previously so may not think to ask again).

From her point of view, her warnings have been ignored multiple times now because she has continued to be put in situations that cause her to snap. The next time she may skip the snap and go straight for a bite. I would advise that you stop putting her in situations that make her uncomfortable and consult a behaviourist (after ruling out a medical issue).

She actually went to kennels for a week at the start of the summer and was fine with it. It’s odd that was ok but being in a cottage with all of us doesn’t seem to be.

I suspect because kennels are generally very routine based. Up at the same time everyday, meals at the same time, exercise at the same time, and plenty of rest/alone time. Holidays tend to be all over the place in terms of routine, meals and exercise - some dogs slot right in (ours is one of them) but many struggle.

Just for more info - she has been friendly to strangers on this holiday when we have been out walking her and she’s been off the lead. Totally fine with other dogs still. The three snapping episodes have been when she’s been on the lead and people have reached out to touch her…

So it's clear to me that she doesn't like people coming into her space and forcing her to interact with them. That's relatively normal but you do need to stop allowing people to approach her on the lead - you are her voice. If you don't speak up and protect her, she has no choice but to escalate her aggression if she's uncomfortable.

She's made it very clear she doesn't like it and if you continue to ignore her, she may well decide that a snap isn't working and go straight to a bite.

I know it's not nice to hear but you really do need to protect her going forward. All it takes is for her to make contact with someone when she snaps and she could be reported as an aggressive dog.

Some excellent advice above, what I would add to it is to get her properly fitted for a comfortable muzzle (lightweight greyhound ones are good) and train her to be comfortable wearing it in the meantime. It will remove a stress level for you, in that you know she can't bit anyone, and any stress that you feel will be going down the lead and exacerbating the situation.

My dog is a 2yr old collie cross, got him as a pup in the Sept before lockdown, so he hasn't really had any holidays away until this summer.
He's a fairly aloof dog anyway with people and other dogs, outside his well-known circle, or people familiar from the school run - with people he has known since puppyhood he is super friendly, helicopter tail, smiling.
We've done a few camping holidays with him this year, with strangers (to him) and I definitely notice a change in his behaviour - he is less relaxed, likes to have time out in the tent away from lots of people, if we're in one place for more than a day or so he quickly establishes boundaries and doesn't like other campers passing close.
He also is more aloof on the lead, verging on protective. I think it is down to a bit of stress around needing to keep our family together, not sure where the boundaries are, seeing lots of strange people and strange things.
Now we're back home he is back to his normal self - so I just manage him on holiday - early and late walks just him and me, to quiet places. Making sure he has lots of opportunity to chill and relax undisturbed - we take his cage and bed but he is very good at staying in the tent. We make sure people know to give him space unless he approaches them, and when out and about I am always mindful of his space and his stress levels and finding places that aren't too intense for him.
It certainly makes holidays a bit more complicated, but that's fine as it is what he needs. And i think that by being extra considerate of him now, he hopefully will learn to adapt and enjoy, or at least tolerate strange places and people more easily.

When people approach my collie I always dictate to them how to pet her. Pet her on shoulders, tummy area behind ears etc. As I feel I know her best and want to avoid any unwanted touching. It would be a lot easier if I could just let people pet her as they please, but unfortunately she just isn’t that sort of dog.

Thanks all. I’m so concerned about it, it’s almost spoilt our holiday tbh - particularly because DH insists I’m worrying unnecessarily and it’s just a phase.

@Ihaventgottimeforthis - so good to hear your experience, thank you. They sound like very similar dogs - ours is always super friendly with those she has known since puppyhood etc. It’s so reassuring that he returns to normal at home - I’ve been seriously fretting we have the makings of an aggressive dog and this will only get worse. I’ll definitely be thinking about how we can manage holidays in the future.

Our dog went through similar changes but at an earlier age, from around the age of 9 months. It's massively unnerving and I was so worries that we had an aggressive dog on our hands and that we wouldn't be able to keep him. What we've actually got is an anxious dog. Once we learnt what made him stressed (screaming kids, strangers in the house, shouting) we were able to adapt things to suit him. We walk him at quieter times (eg.id never take him to a kids play park) we shut him in a different room if we have people in the house that he doesn't know and we don't let anyone stroke him on walks. He's a much happier dog and the snapping incidents are now very few and far between.