German shepherds and vaccines

[epponneee]

Hello, we are due to collect our new German shepherd puppy ñext week. The breeder is very against having them vaccinated- uses nosodes instead. my previous dogs were vaccinated but to be fair they did suffer with a lot of the issues that are being blamed on over vaccinating (skin issues, allergies etc). having looked a bit further it seems a lot of people involved with German shepherds are either against or very cautious about vaccines e.g. the national German shepherd rescue. just wondering if anyone had any experiences/thoughts?generally I would consider myself completely pro vaccine but it doesn't sit quite right to completely disregard breeder who has been doing this a very long time especially as her views seem to be backed up elsewhere. at the moment I am veering towards getting the distemper and parvo vaccines and skippig the kennel cough (won't be using day care or kennels) and lepto (seems to be the most controversial for side effects and apparently not a very high effectiveness anyway).Thoughts please?

How about having the puppy vaccinations, then doing titre testing rather than regular boosters, only boosting if immunity drops?

There has been a massive increase in parvo in pups since the covid puppy buying frenzy, unfortunately fuelled by puppy farms and illegal imported/smuggled pups. I know several vet nurses who have had to nurse and ultimately lose young pups to it over the last year. It’s just heartbreaking. Even if your dog has excellent breeding, which I’m sure it has, you don’t know the situation of other local pups who may be putting yours at risk.

Iirc, you can’t titre test for Lepto and although I am aware of the controversy re Lepto vaccines, despite living in a village, well away from take aways and restaurants and nowhere near a river or stream, which are associated with higher risks for Lepto, we ended up with rats in our garden for the first time ever (family have had this house for over 50 years) this year, so it’s not something I would want to risk.

I am not anti vax and do vaccinate when required. However I do liek to over vaccinate.

So I would do puppy vaccinations then titre test from 1 year booster.

That ensures my dogs have protection from some pretty nasty illnesses but also not have unnecessary vaccinations.

You have the option of Lepto 2 of lepto 4 at most vets so worth talking to them about the prevalnace in your area.

@PollyRoulson can you titre test for Lepto? You couldn’t last time I checked.

Nope you can't titre for lepto -so I do vaccinate yearly for that.

When I got my dog the breeder was opposed to all vaccines except parvovirus.

I went against her advice and had all the puppy vaccinations though I cant remember if I had lepto and did the boosters, I can’t remember how many but think she had maybe 3 boosters.

After her last booster and flea treatment she behaved really bizarrely briefly and I was worried she’d had a seizure, this was repeated with her next few doses of flea spot on.
I’m not sure if the reaction was to the vaccine, the spot on or both but I haven’t vaccinated her since nor used chemical flea and worm treatment.

There is research out there to suggest that puppy vaccinations last at minimum 7 years and most likely the full lifespan of the dog.

I have bought a puppy, I wrote on here asking for advice as the puppy is tiny and I was shocked to discover the same amount of vaccine is given to toys and giants and didn’t understand why.

I have decided I am going to give the puppy the puppy the initial vaccinations and one booster and then no more.
I’m not giving lepto 4.

Also, with lepto, I tried to find out how many cases there are each year in the UK but it’s impossible.

I found a few websites claiming to have asked vets for the figures so they can make a map but not a single vet was willing to disclose how many cases.

The only possible figure I could find for Leptospirosis in the UK was 18 cases in a year.
If that is true, then the risk of a dog contracting leptospirosis is very low indeed.

I also came across a study that claimed that 100% of dogs infected with Lepto had received the vaccine three months prior.
But I can’t remember where I read it so can’t check the study to see how reliable it was.

We got all the vaccines for our shepherd. He now has skin allergies where he scratches himself non stop. It is horrible to see him in so much discomfort so in order to help/stop the itching he takes antihistamines two times a day. These pills are expensive, and I wonder what impact they have on his organs.

I often wonder if we over vaccinated him? Our last shepherd did not have this problem and was on a very dfferent vaccine regime (different country).

*different

It's a choice between the unproven connection between vaccines and allergies, and the dead cert connection between vaccination and a massively reduced risk of illness/death.

It's worth remembering that foxes are also a reservoir for parvo. I know of a puppy who picked up parvo after one dose of vaccines, possibly from indirect contact with foxes, and died at about ten weeks of age.

The risk of allergies increases with higher rates of inbreeding, which is also worth bearing in mind when looking for a puppy.

Thanks everyone for the advice - some things to think about. does anyone have any idea about the effectiveness of the lepto? I was under the impression that it isn't a very effective vaccine anyway and a lot of dogs who are vaccinated still get it. I can't remember where I read that though.

@Harriedharriet sorry to hear your shepherd has suffered like that. my previous one was the same - impossible to know if vaccines played a role or not. our breeder is also very in favour of raw feeding and natural/herbal approaches to fleas and worming. apparently these reduce some of the skin and digestive issues that shepherds are prone to. I will be taking onboard those approaches.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman how sad about that puppy - and even after the one dose. :( I am pretty sure I will get parvo done at least as a puppy, though probably not all the boosters. I am pretty happy with the breeding of my pup and have quite an extensive family tree so fingers crossed 🤞

Interesting debate many year ago at a dinner party thing I sat next to a vet who told me that dogs only need there primary course it suits the pharmaceutical companies and vets to keep doing boosters. I’ve only ever done the primary course never given kennel cough 7 dogs in all who lived a very long and very healthy lives (in fairness breeds chosen for their long levity and good health) I’ve never experienced any problems and none have ever had kennel cough.

It’s generally well accepted that skin problems and allergies have a hereditary component and so I would be worried taking on a puppy from a breeder that needs to not vaccinate/is worried about raw feeding etc so much incase it may make allergies worse. It’s very common to see an itchy dam and for lots of the litter to be allergy prone too so she must have had some sort of issue in the past to choose this mindset.
If a dog has any allergies I don’t believe they should be bred from at all regardless of anything else.

I’m not worried about the lepto 4 vaccine. I’ve probably given it to thousands of dogs including my own with no reaction.

I’ve had many GSD, none of which have ever had bad skin. No allergies of any kind and all of mine have been vaccinated, flea and worm treated regularly and fed a dry food diet.
Saying that I tend to just do the puppy ones and first booster and then get lazy after that but I would have no concerns about vaccinating yearly either. I also don’t do kennel cough as mine don’t mix much or go into kennels and mostly the illness is mild if they do get it so on balance it’s not worth it.

@IseeScottishhills that's really interesting and that is kind of my hunch that not vaccinating at all is probably a step too far but that all the boosters may do more harm than good.

@Maneandfeathers I see what you mean but with this breeder I know that they have been advocating this natural approach for at least the last 30 years (we had my 2 childhood dogs from them many year ago). so in this case I don't think it is a concern specifically relating to their stock

Wow, I have never heard this. Is it GSD specific? We had a poodle who always got all his yearly boosters and flea treatments and lived to be 16 with no skin/allergy issues whatsoever. Maybe we were just lucky

"but that all the boosters may do more harm than good."
I'm not sure about the more harm than good but possibly a waste of money.