Not keen on crates, anyone else had puppy success without one?

[youaintseenbadboyz2]

Hi everyone
We are welcoming a golden retriever puppy to our home in October . Previously we had a lovely Rommie rescue who we sadly lost in May. He hated his crate and after two nights we couldn’t bear to see him so sad and he thrived in a pen. However full disclosure, he was 6 months so was clean at night.

Our lovely breeder also doesn’t use crates but is completely supportive if we want to but I’m just not sure, if we have a puppy play pen for night times and if we need to pop out briefly, why we need the crate? We also travel to Cornwall a few times a year but again, could we just take the play pen?

There also the fact that as our GR will grow to be a fairly big boy or girl, a crate in the car is not going to work anyway.

Would love your thoughts and experience on this

...or on the sofa during the day

Never crated ddog. I think it's in humane.

When he was a puppy we roped off the kitchen. As he got older, he had free reign of the house. He largely just slept on the sofa or in his bed if we were out. Never any issues with chewing things he should, or accidents all over the place etc.

We collected our GR puppy on Monday, I was anti-crate but then read of lots of GR’s soon being able to jump out of the playpen which obviously isn’t great for their joints. So we got an extra large crate and I’m so glad, he settles really well in it and has his peace from the kids. It would be more inhumane in our case to not have a crate as he’d be sleep deprived!

Out of interest @Jigsawtrain what is the difference between your dog having a bed to lay on where he is not touched by your children rather than a cage .

When someone walks past his crate he looks up at them, the children think that means he’s awake and when he’s been asleep on the rug they’re straight over to stroke him despite what I’ve been saying to them on repeat. In the crate they can’t get to him and actually listen to me when I’ve said they’re not allowed to open the crate. It’s also really helped pup to settle in the crate, hes been falling asleep in there far easier than when not in as there’s less distractions.
I completely acknowledge it’s a children training thing than a puppy training issue but he seems very calm and relaxed in his den.
For us we needed somewhere to put puppy in when needed and I was leaning towards a playpen until I read about them jumping out and a crate is working well for us so far.

Floralnomad beds can be a real hazard for many chewy bitey puppies. They eat and swallow the stuffing and can not be left unsupervised.

It depends on the dog

Plus dpup currently just tries to sleep anywhere if not in his crate, his preference is a doorway or middle of the walkway to the kitchen. No chance of him being undisturbed!

At the moment I have a labrador puppy with 6 other dogs in the house. He needs loads of sleep in a a day, way more than the other dogs.

Pop him in his crate and he gets quaranteed uninterrupted sleep whilst the house carries on around him. The door is not shut but having a smaller opening is a clear sign to the other dogs to stay away and for the puppy to feel safe and secure in the crate. He has a blanket on three sides to keep out the drafts and is as snuggly as a bug in a rug.

Put him on a bed and he gets disturbed by the comings and goings.

I can assure you this is not inhumane

@percheron67

Crates are completely unnecessary. Proper training from the start and the dog should settle easily. Horrid idea to put a dog in an metal cage.

You could argue that having a dog in a house is horrid, as it’s not their natural habitat. I’ve personally never used a crate, but my dd uses one for her dog; he loves it. It’s his safe place, his refuge. The door is open all day and he frequently goes in there by choice when he wants some peace and quiet. When they go to bed, he automatically goes in, closes the door himself and settles in his bed. He’ll go out early morning for a quick wee and run back into his crate when it’s still dark.

We have a crate in our van to transport our dog. She is fine in this. But that's because she has been crate trained in the house. She sleeps in one overnight.

@nc8765

Never crated ddog. I think it's in humane.

When he was a puppy we roped off the kitchen. As he got older, he had free reign of the house. He largely just slept on the sofa or in his bed if we were out. Never any issues with chewing things he should, or accidents all over the place etc.

But dogs aren’t human. They’re canine.

I think putting a puppy in a crate is like putting a baby in a cot. It's for their safety and saves the house from being wrecked.

I don't understand how "properly training your pup from the start" can ensure they are safe all night that very first night after you bring them home. You would be asleep...?

Had 2 retrivers as a child (one after the other so 20+ year span)

Crate training wasn't a "thing" then. I wasn't born until 1st dog was 4 so don't know what happened there but the 2nd was a nightmare.

He ripped up an entire kitchen floor, ate through bin lids, shit everywhere for about 6 months. Luckily he turned into a wonderful dog.

As an adult I've had 2 Goldens.

The first- crate trained. House trained within 2 weeks, never chewed. Got rid of crate at 6 months.

The second - house trained within 4 weeks, never chewed. Still got the crate because he likes it and takes himself off to sleep in there.

Based on my experience of Goldens I would always crate train.

So in my experience

Didn’t crate my flat coated retriever, he had an old box he used as bed (with bedding!). He didn’t destroy house and only peed once but was 10 weeks old so had extra time being trained with breeder ! However he needed crated a few times due to injury when he had to rest. Luckily he didn’t mind it in fact as an adult he’d go in open crate instead of own bed when it was left open. However having a crate trained dog might make it easier if the dog did have any issues in the future. I think do what seems right to you, it’s possible to have a well house trained dog with out crate maybe more likely as you can’t just use crate to prevent any errors!

I've got a 6 momth old cocker spaniel cross and previously had a golden retriever. I've never used a crate for my dogs. There's no need for it in my opinion, crate training seems like a bit of an unecessary trend.

I've read all the arguments for - dogs like a den where they feel cosy and safe (so why not have a den without a lock on it then and why does the poor animal have to be forced in there?) - easier toilet training (just train your fucking dog properly by taking them outside eegularly!) Etc and I think it's all bs to cover for dog owner laziness tbh.

The thing that swayed my thinking on this was a map I saw which showed the correlation between dog attacks and places where crating was the norm . There is a school of thought that says that dogs who are crated do not get enough REM sleep (because they are unable to stretch out or reposition themselves when they need to during rest - or switch between cool surfaces and warm surfaces when they need to).

Thank you so much everyone, a real variety of views here. I work from home and my dd is 14 so we don’t have the issue of being regularly disturbed. I just want our pup to feel safe at night and have somewhere safe to settle themselves. I guess because I never grew up with the whole crate thing, it just feels a little alien. To be fair we never had a GR but nine of our dogs destroyed our house

I use a pen, with a sheet placed over one half of the top (to make a kind of cosy sheltered "tent" area). We did originally have an open crate inside his pen too, but he just didn't really bother sleeping in it. He also started climbing on top of it once he was big enough, then hopping right out of the pen. Haha. So we got rid of the crate.

I don't personally like locked crates, but each to their own. They are useful at home if your dog could otherwise escape a pen and hurt themselves, though. I do think it's useful to crate train dogs, for unexpected vet visits and so on. But again - it's up to you!

My dog is now 1 year old, and he still has a pen. This is mostly because we have cats, and he can get a little piqued about them. So if he's eating, or ready to sleep, or home alone, he happily goes in the pen.

Basically, you just need some way of ensuring that your pup is safe when you're unable to watch them. Crates can be useful for house training, but if you're able to watch them like a hawk and take them out every hour, it's not even necessary anyway.

We never had crates for our dogs as a child , .. have you got a kitchen the dog can have a bed in. ? Or just let it have a bed in your bedroom? That's what we always did .

Some dogs can trash your kitchen if left to their own devices, due to boredom. I know my own has been left for a ten minute period in kitchen and she was up at the hob. Not something I wish to repeat. Thankfully she doesn't mind her crate.

We used a crate but only overnight.

Tbh we never had any issues with it. Dog went in quite happily and it signaled to him it was bed time.
I liked it because I knew he was completely safe.
We got rid of it at 1 as he started sleeping outside of the it on the rug etc.

We've never used a crate, and have puppy-proofed instead. I don't like them - I think they are very confining and tempt people to shut dogs away for hours on end, though I do appreciate that some dog-owners use them sensibly and say they give dogs a safe den.

But you can definitely bring up a puppy without one.

I've never used a dog crate ever for any of my dogs. I've had various breeds over the years all lived until old age. I've had breeds that apparently "should" be crated but I havnt. I've found training and the word No the best to stop any chewing. My dogs have always been free range. I have a safety gate on the stairs as I have cats. My dogs were always given plenty of chewy toys and I used bitter bite as pups. If you train your dog you don't need a crate. As for the " safe space" they don't need one. Dog will find a settle spot.

We don't use a crate. We puppy proofed the hallway, and made a den under the stairs. If she is in her den no one bothers her.

We live rurally and one of the many reasons we keep a dog is to warn us if someone is coming to the house, and to warn strangers not to come here. I think that it would be very stressful for a dog not to be able to get out of their cage if they thought there was an intruder. If they are not locked in they can have a wander an check then go back to bed.

My grandparents raised generations of mild mannered puppies before crates had ever been invented, and would have been horrified by the use of them tbh.

Mine came as an untrained adult rescue and I've never felt the need to use one either.

@Blendabrethin

I've got a 6 momth old cocker spaniel cross and previously had a golden retriever. I've never used a crate for my dogs. There's no need for it in my opinion, crate training seems like a bit of an unecessary trend.

I've read all the arguments for - dogs like a den where they feel cosy and safe (so why not have a den without a lock on it then and why does the poor animal have to be forced in there?) - easier toilet training (just train your fucking dog properly by taking them outside eegularly!) Etc and I think it's all bs to cover for dog owner laziness tbh.

The thing that swayed my thinking on this was a map I saw which showed the correlation between dog attacks and places where crating was the norm . There is a school of thought that says that dogs who are crated do not get enough REM sleep (because they are unable to stretch out or reposition themselves when they need to during rest - or switch between cool surfaces and warm surfaces when they need to).

That's so interesting about REM sleep. Our goldendoodle initially slept in our room in a crate, but didn't like it much and I definitely thought even a large crate was too cramped - so we got rid of it. She definitely moves around quite a lot during the night, and varies between cool floorboards and warm rug.