Housetraining incontinent dog

[househuntinginthesouth]

Several tests, months and vet bills later we're still waiting for a cause and solution to our dogs frequent and urgent need to wee.
During the day the door is left open for her to go out, in the afternoon/evening she has a noisy thing to push to alert us she needs the door open to go out to toilet.
Night time we were using nappies but we've had to stop using those as they make her sore (have tried different brands).
Without the nappies she will (combination of) wet the bed when she is in a deep sleep and wake everyone up barking to be let out in the night.
Have recently started using puppy pads at night which she got the hand of really quickly and well. Only problem is (despite me removing the pads and deep cleaning the area the pads are with urine anti odour stuff every morning) she has started using that area as a toilet, regardless of wether the door is open or not. She won't even ask to go out anymore, she just wees next to the door.
I'm not sure what to try at this point, is it possible to somehow teach her to toilet outdoors during the day and indoors overnight, I feel like that's much too confusing for her (I've been trying to basically retrain her toilet training) or is there another solution, something very simple that I have not thought off that we can do instead?

You need to stop leaving the door open. It's a mistake I see a lot of people making on here - she can't differentiate between inside and outside if there's no physical barrier.

You either need to get to her to ask to go out every single time (by shutting the door and using the buzzer) or leave puppy pads out 24/7 for her to use.

@icedcoffees thanks for replying. The indoor incidents has only started since using puppy pads. I should've been clearer, the door is only kept open a few hours a day when the weather is nice etc but Im sure she knows the difference anyway as from a very young age she's been housetrained and she's known to make the noise for the door to be opened or walk straight out if it already is.

What breed is this dog? Some breeds are a nightmare to toilet train. Specifically (in my case) Chinese cresteds. But there are others too.

Rather than use puppy pads use incontinence pads. These will absorb the urine from the incontinence at night. However they will not contain the smell that puppy pads have added to encourage dogs to wee,

[quote househuntinginthesouth]@icedcoffees thanks for replying. The indoor incidents has only started since using puppy pads. I should've been clearer, the door is only kept open a few hours a day when the weather is nice etc but Im sure she knows the difference anyway as from a very young age she's been housetrained and she's known to make the noise for the door to be opened or walk straight out if it already is. [/quote]
I would still try keeping the door closed (or use a babygate if you want the door open due to the weather) - dogs find it much easier to learn if there's a physical barrier in place.

Or can you not leave pads down 24/7?

Is she spayed? Is it spay incontinence? There is medication you can get for that.

How old is your dog? Its not clear from your post if this is a new problem that has started during adulthood or if you have never managed to housetrained her.
Weeing in her sleep is not deliberate, it is literally incontinence.
Is she spayed as that can cause this problem.

also coming to ask how old/general health of dog.

My lovely old boy got to a point where he couldn't control his wee-he had a hideous bladder stone-have you made sure there are no medical issues (if he is not a puppy) thread not clear if it is a pup or a dog regressing?

I'm just not sure how to make the incontinence thing easier to manage (til we know how to fix it) if nappies and maybe even puppy pads are a no. She's 14 months and has been toilet trained for almost a year, toileting (urine only) inside has only started since I introduced night time toilet pads recently and she only pees where the toilet pads would be. Before the toilet pads she would always ask to go out or if the door is already open obviously fo straight out. I don't think it's scent related as the area is deep cleaned (I can't remember the brand name now, green spray bottle to remove pet urine odour)

Sorry I'm awfully bad at phrasing things, makes sense to me, but probably doesn't make sense at all. Thanks for all the replies.

@icedcoffees I am thinking I will have to retrain her, I will start closing the door more and have to keep an eye on when she goes towards the door. It'd be a shame to use the pads all the time as she has been toilet trained from the first couple of weeks we've had her, plus not very eco friendly.

@fantastaballs she's a whippet cross and has been toilet trained since about 2.5/3 months. She was super easy to toilet train. Aww Chinese crested, cute!

@PollyRoulson sorry I say puppy pads, I just mean toileting pads, they're not the scented ones/not the ones that attract toileting.

@Wolfiefan she is not spayed yet as I was advised to wait, so not spray incontinence although she was put on medication that helps with spay incontinence for a while which unfortunately didn't work.

@Hothammock she is 14 months and has been toilet trained from when she was really young, however needs to go frequently hence not being able to hold it during the night. It's definitely a medical and not behavioural thing. It's being investigated by a specialist but we have yet to have a diagnosis (however we're currently awaiting test and biopsy results so hopefully we get some answers this time!)

@mumsiedarlingrevolta ah bless him, hope he is better now. She's 14 months old, so still a young dog. We've been to the vets a few times now, have found certain abnormalities all related to that area but not things that are directly causing it (I was actually going to post about that, highly rated specialist vet and we are just not getting answers, I'm appreciate they're doing all they can but it's still very frustrating). It's definitely a medical issue but we're not sure exactly what.

Definitely no UTI?
If she has started peeing inside since you’ve started using pads then they appear to have taught her it’s ok to pee inside.
What does breeder say? Any littermates have the same issues?
Have vets looked at size of bladder and how well she’s able to empty it? Or is she not producing the hormone or whatever that means they don’t have to pee overnight??

@Wolfiefan
Yes, I've taught her it's okay to pee inside (which it is at nighttime but of course how would she know she difference) by using the pads and now I'm not sure what to do...I'll have to retrain her which should hopefully be quick and easy however not sure what to do at nighttime as we can't go back to using nappies and can't go back to her sleeping in her own wee or being up several times in the night and if I use the pads she may think it's okay to pee inside all the time again. It's a tricky one.

Tested clear for UTI however vet said something about possible deep infection. Checked hormones levels before her general anaesthesia which came back clear. Her bladder is small and far back, but the vet said this could be because she urinates so frequently her bladder would be small and it's far back because it's small it doesn't extend out as much. This most recent visit (last week) they've put a camera up her, a dye X-ray as well as some other tests, they said her bladder was cracked when it should be smooth (although they said they may have caused damage) and something about something bulging...there's a few tests they did and a biopsy, should have results end of this week. In the past she's had several tests done as well and not found anything to fix things.
I'm in contact with the breeder who is the owner of both parents, both are healthy and a couple of the other litter mates who also don't have this problem, however last visit the vets had said she would have been born with whatever is causing it.

Is she getting enough water during the day? It might seem counter intuitive but if the wee is too strong it will irritate her bladder and she will want to pee. She needs access to lots of water in the day and if she is on dry food you may need to add water to her meals to hydrate her properly.

@Hothammock
She has access to water all day and is on raw food so I'm hoping she's hydrated enough. She's had urine samples etc done in the past and stayed overnight so they seen how much she drinks and what her urine is like etc.

At the vets that is.

Good luck with the tests.

Our dog became incontinent as she got older and had Cushings which meant she drank huge amounts. Prior to that she’s developed sphincter weakness after being spayed but I know that’s not relevant to yours.
She learned to use a dog flap which worked really well. She was a boxer so suitable for any size dog. It’s very difficult to break the habit once they’ve left wee there, but it does sound like there is more going on and I hope they get to the bottom of it and she can get treatment.

The raw food isn’t all meat is it? My dog used to wee more if she ate a lot of meat without carbs.

I would think maybe you need to get her up in the night until you get an answer. Have the vets sent the results to a specialist at all?

Hi @househuntinginthesouth. Just had another thought.
(the lovely old boy I mentioned up thread died a few years back at the ripe old age of 15)

When we got our new dog she was house trained pretty easily but then regressed-although it was more poo in the house than wee. She would go to the furthest point in the house-we are in a victorian semi so top floor and go there.
After some research I realised she just had too much space and so it seemed ok to her to go there. We started leaving her downstairs so she had access to sitting room/kitchen/dining room and outside.
It did stop.
I would def ditch the puppy pads and make her space small so she won't want to wee in it.
I just re-read your post though and do think she also needs a different vet? If she is going whilst asleep that seems more medical?
Does she seem to have any bladder control ?

I defiantly think it's something medical as dogs don't usually like to toilet in the same area they sleep, they will always go somewhere different to do their business.
You said she was toilet trained from a very young age but it isn't unusual for dogs to go backwards when they get a little older and then that's where you need to be firm and consistent as once that habits formed it's very hard to break.
I'd think about getting a second opinion from a vet and then if the tests come back fine maybe think about employing a dog trainer for an interim period to help you.
Sorry I can't be off any real help but I do hope all works out okay for you, I remember the puppy days very well and remember how awful it was when my dog would toilet in the house and how it use to get me down

Hello,
I hadn't explained things very well, I'll try again and hopefully it'll make more sense. Our dog is just over a year old, back in Dec/Jan time I realised her needing to go to the toilet all of the time wasn't the usual puppy bladder (the age she was at she should've outgrown that by then) and that something must be wrong so I took her to the vets. The vets did tests (tests, scans, X-rays etc) and could not find an answer, so my dog was referred by the vets to the specialist vets. The specialist vets did the same checks that the vets had done and still no answers or solution as to why she needed to wee so much, no obvious cause or reason. We took her back to the vets again last week so we're hoping for some answers this time so we can get treatment to fix it.

For those who might be interested in an update. Her tests results have come back and they think it's an infection. Despite her urine been checked before, they think this infection will have been there from the start ie when I first took her to the vet. I feel so bad that for at least 8 months the infection was just left to get worse and worse, some of the tests that the vets have done have been very uncomfortable and painful for her and she found staying overnight at the vets very distressing...all for nothing. All for something that could've been picked up on a simple urine test.

Oh no that’s awful but hopefully they can clear it soon? Is there any recompense for all the costs?

I think what @househuntinginthesouth is referring to is an interstitial infection - so no bacteria in the urine they are in the actual tissue of the bladder wall. These are extremely hard to diagnose really needing a biopsy and I am sorry to say @househuntinginthesouth can be very difficult to treat requiring long courses of antibiotics and can some times be recurring.
@Karwomannghia if this what I am thinking of, the vets have done everything correct in their work up and even if standard UTI antibiotics had been given at the start they wouldn't have worked so in fact the costs would have been higher. So to ask for monetary recompense would be inappropriate and rebuffed very firmly.

How old is she and is she spayed?

@Lonecatwithkitten I'm assuming you're a vet so thanks for explaining that. I did ask the vet how it hadn't been picked up before and was told the bacteria hadn't shown in the urine tests but not told that it's not something that would be picked up on urine test. I have already been warned it may take a while to sort out, so prepared for that and just very relieved to finally have some answers and know we can start working towards making things better.