Offered a 14 week old puppy

[MightyMeerkat]

Hi. I've been offered a 14 week old puppy. The current owner has had it for 6 weeks but realised they made a mistake. What questions should I be asking? And should I be asking for evidence of vet checks and jabs etc? I've never bought a dog before so would appreciate any tips.

Also, they are saying the puppy sleeps and is toilet trained but I imagine it will almost be back to square one with the training? It must be upsetting for the pup to be re-homed at that age.

It's illegal to sell on a puppy under 6 months. If the owner changes their mind then they legally have to return the puppy to the breeder. If they bought the puppy from a proper breeder they would know this, so I suspect the poor puppy has come from a puppy farm and therefore may have health issues.

"Lucy’s Law spells the beginning of the end for puppy farming - GOV.UK" www.gov.uk/government/news/lucys-law-spells-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-puppy-farming

What breed? You’re going to want details of the breeder including any evidence of health testing of parents depending on what breed. Evidence of jabs, microchip, check ups. Where it’s been sleeping, what food it is currently on, whether it has been well socialised as the socialisation is quite narrow for puppies. I’d want to know exactly why they were giving it up. Have you got time to settle it in? It may never have been alone, for example

Socialisation window*

How much money are they asking for?

Why isn't the puppy going back to the breeder?

This puppy can not be sold by its current owner, to you. Under lucys law.

If the dog is toilet trained and sleeps well, why do they think they made a mistake? What breed is it?

I wouldn't be touching this dog. When you take it to the vets and declare yourself the new owner, they could report the person for selling it to you. Or the microchip company could when you fanhe the details.

No idea what fanhe is. Should say change

If you do take this puppy, you need to have infinite patience. In some ways it's perhaps better that current owners realise they aren't up to dog ownership now rather than in 3 months time or a year, but it would be an absolute tragedy for puppy to be moved on from a second home.

As a first time dog owner this could be a real challenge as puppy is likely to be insecure and not well socialised or trained. Did you actually want a dog before this one became available? Will there be someone around the house most of the time? Are you up for a 13+ year commitment and willing to pay the necessary vet fees and insurance?

@GingerAndTheBiscuits. she's not going to need any of that because legally she can't buy the puppy. The law says any puppy or kitten under 6 months has to be returned to the breeder.

In an ideal world the puppy would go back to the breeder, I'm guessing this isn't the case here so any helpful information would probably be better than 'well you can't'. Because really...they can

It's the law that the it must go back to the breeder.

Do not touch with a bargepole a puppy that is being offered for sale illegally

It may be the law that the puppy goes back, but as the breeders are likely to be unscrupulous puppy farmers, it may well not be in the best interest of the dog.

Do you know the current owner personally?

There was a post on here recently about someone who brought a puppy in similar circumstances and the breeder demanded it back with no financial compensation. It can be a scam so be very careful.

@iamtheoneandonlyyy

In an ideal world the puppy would go back to the breeder, I'm guessing this isn't the case here so any helpful information would probably be better than 'well you can't'. Because really...they can

If the breeder is refusing to take the dog back, that's more reason for the op to not get the dog.

If this is the case, the dog has come from a piss poor breeder. Not had well informed owners for a few weeks. There could be all sorts of issues.

People are burnt in this situation all the time. AND now there's the added problem of lucys law.

If the breeder is decent and just hasn't been informed. That can cause issues if they find out. Which is more possible now.

Or op could be being scammed.

here so any helpful information would probably be better than 'well you can't'. Because really...they can

Well, they can, but that does not mean the OP has to join in.

She really should not get this puppy.

Wow thanks I wasn't aware of that.

I do want a dog and have been looking for a while. No problem re commitment/cost etc.

I don't know the person selling. I am told it's because of the owner's health issues. They don't have the time/energy for the puppy.

It's a spaniel mixed breed. I don't know anything about the breeder or why they have not returned it. May be that they don't know the law either. I see lots of dogs for sale at this age online.

If the breeder won't take it back (and I do agree that if it's a puppy farm then the puppy is better off not going back) then the owner should give it to a rescue centre.

The problem is that some people see dogs as commodities. The owners have paid ££ for a puppy, decide it's not for them but want to recoup some of their money. If they give the puppy to a rescue centre then they won't get any money back, so instead they try to sell the puppy illegally.

It sounds as though the OP knows very little about puppy ownership but is liking the idea of having a puppy. Puppies are really hard work and need a lot of input. Sadly, if you're not prepared for it, then the puppy may well end up being sold on again.

Anyone who thinks that Lucy’s law is going to make a blind bit of difference to the puppy farming industry is naive in the extreme.

The kinds of people who buy from puppy farms, from gumtree or Pets4Homes aren’t the kinds of people who care about what the law says, and given breeding and resale of animals is so incredibly unregulated things will always be as they always have been.

The only things which would make a difference are:

Making it illegal to sell animals for profit, if you’re a reputable breeder then some of your litters will offset the others, there is literally 0 reason why puppies need to be sold for £3000 plus or even £1000, and there is 0 reason for kittens to be sold at all for profit with regards to moggies.

Make the advertising of animals illegal except for on registered breeder’s websites, so if you are planning to breed your animals then you need to register as a breeder with a website to prove it and sell that way. Pets4Homes needs to be shut down and gumtree needs to be legally made to ban the advertising of live animals.

Make it illegal to breed more than two litters in a year per address. So no having 4 or 5 bitches you’re breeding from.

Lucy’s law is so wishy washy that I am wondering how it took ten years to come into effect.

People shouldn’t need telling any more that buying a puppy on the m4 is a bad idea, or that going to a house where there are 14 puppies with a bitch who probably couldn’t produce more than 5/6 likely means that those puppies are not all from that bitch.

People shouldn’t need telling that if you go to a puppy farm and the puppies are in a dreadful state, then buying one is only fuelling the trade which you are supposed to disapprove of.

[quote EmmaGrundyForPM]@GingerAndTheBiscuits. she's not going to need any of that because legally she can't buy the puppy. The law says any puppy or kitten under 6 months has to be returned to the breeder.[/quote]
Quite right, sorry - ours is a rescue so wasn’t aware of the law change!

Honestly, I'd walk away and advise the owner to either return the dog to the breeder or seek the assistance of a proper rescue. If going via a rescue, the puppy will be snapped up by properly vetted owners.

Return to the idea of dog ownership when you're ready, have researched the breeds you're interested in, and can source a dog from a reputable source.

The owner blaming this on their health could actually been any number of things

• a breeder that's done no / inadequate vetting and has been lax in other ways too. If they're not taking the puppy back, it's a puppy farm - and a bad one too.
• it's nothing to do with the owner's health and that's a convenient lie
• a puppy that has turned out to have expensive health problems
• a scam
• given that they're talking about a lack of time and energy, you should assume little to no training (fixable) and completely inadequate socialisation (trickier to fix - there's a window that closes around 16 weeks)

Walk Run away.

@MightyMeerkat

Wow thanks I wasn't aware of that.

I do want a dog and have been looking for a while. No problem re commitment/cost etc.

I don't know the person selling. I am told it's because of the owner's health issues. They don't have the time/energy for the puppy.

It's a spaniel mixed breed. I don't know anything about the breeder or why they have not returned it. May be that they don't know the law either. I see lots of dogs for sale at this age online.

The breeder can not say 'we didn't know the law'.

Again, if that's their claim the dog has been poorly bred.

What sort of spaniel mix?

I am a life long spaniel owner. If the seller had the dogs welfare as their prime concern, they would be approaching a spaniel rescue.

Their health issues came on in the last 6 weeks and it's a long term condition? That's unlikely. If they did have health concerns, the breeders obviously didn't ensure the puppy was going to the right home. Or the person you are buying from lied.

The lots of dogs that are being sold at that age on line, are all being sold illegally unless they are sold by the breeder. Who should also own the mother.

Where online are all the dogs this age being sold?

Spaniels of this age are usually trying to be resold, because of the biting. Cockers are commonly called cockerdiles because their puppy biting seems to overwhelm many people. Or they are showing signs of resource guarding or just to energetic. Typical spaniel traits which show the owner, didn't research what they were buying.

Anyone who thinks that Lucy’s law is going to make a blind bit of difference to the puppy farming industry is naive in the extreme.

I agree. It doesn't look at the real issues. However, pretending it can be ignored and not ending biting you on the arse, isn't really a great idea either.

You have found it online?

@EmmaGrundyForPM Lucy's Law only applies to licenced sellers i.e. pet shops. It doesn't apply to private individuals who can still sell on their own single pups as a one-off when they've made a mistake. it becomes an issue if they had a whole litter that they hadn't bred that they were re-selling. But it's still not policed and relies entirely on individuals reporting cases of third party selling. Lucy's Law hasn't made much of a difference for puppy selling to be honest, there were over 10,000 dog adverts on Gumtree earlier today.

@MightyMeerkat if the dog is a cross it won't be from a reputable breeder. If you don't know the owner whose selling then it is extreme caution as they are very likely to sugar coat any behaviour issues. You would need to be able to cope with potential issues that may take months to sort out, and at great cost with behaviourists and trainers.