Behaviourist-is it worth it for reactivity?

[Woolywolf]

Hi
I’ve had a rescue dog for about 18 months. He is dog reactive and occasionally stranger reactive. We got him from a reputable large rescue that has qualified behaviourists. They said his reactivity improved when he was with them-basically he never met any dogs with his old owners and they carefully introduced him to dogs and he walked with them and met some on walks-they said he snapped at one that approached him off lead but was generally ok. He’s not terrible-he can usually walk past on lead dogs fine if we have treats and we’ve taken him to training classes where he is fine about other dogs being a couple of metres from him. We manage fine by walking him in quiet areas and telling people to keep their dogs away-except occasionally people let their dogs run up/can’t stop them and he reacts quite aggressively-growls snaps-has not bitten a dog but has bitten my hand when I pulled him away. After this bite I spoke to the behaviourists at the dog rescue and they were helpful. When we adopted him they suggested he would benefit from having some calm dog friends to walk with and said that he was able to make friends with dogs if introduced slowly. We have let him sniff (on leads) the dog trainers dog and a friends dog once but we don’t have anyone to walk him with regularly. He’s spent years not meeting dogs so isn’t too fussed about playing with them-just sniffed then moved on. But he is only happy to sniff once he’s been near the dog on lead for a few minutes-if they approach him he is aggressive.

I’ve looked into seeing a behaviourist but I’m not sure I believe they will have any advice that I haven’t already received from the behaviourists at the dog rescue/from researching online and having had a previous reactive dog. Is there actually any way to solve the issue of him not liking off lead dogs approaching him? All the advice seems to be centred around giving treats and gradually getting closer to dogs, and avoiding dogs coming in close enough for him to react and gradually reducing the distance which is all well and good until you go into the real world where out of control dogs do occasionally approach. We walk in quiet areas so dogs only approach less than once a month. I don’t think it would be good to stop walking him altogether except in hired fields as he loves his walks and doesn’t seem that unhappy after the dog has gone away. So we’ve accepted that dogs will sometimes approach and try to manage this.

I’ve looked at a couple of behaviourists websites and it seems like they largely focus on giving theoretical advice, whereas what I would want is to introduce him to other dogs off lead and walk with them like they did at the rescue centre and said that this was good for him. The behaviourists seem to charge a lot of money as well, and it grates on me slightly that on both websites (both fully qualified behaviourists from links on my vets website) they seem to charge a lot more for 1.5 hours to deal with aggression/reactivity than 1.5hours dealing with different issues. I know it’s a more complex problem but it’s still paying them to do their job for the same amount of time. Anyway that’s a bit of a tangent! We could afford the fee (don’t think insurance would cover as we knew about the reactivity when we got him) but I’m wondering if it’s worth it?

There is a local dog walker with some training qualifications who is quite young but apparantly very good and specialises in walking larger and aggressive dogs, and has spent time working at a rescue in Spain. She does much cheaper training sessions and has offered to do some walks with her dogs and us. I’ve been a bit hesitant about this as I know that anyone can call themselves a trainer and she is not a registered behaviourist. However the fully qualified behaviourists at the dog rescue (it’s a big legitimate national charity one) didn’t advise he needed behaviour help and just said that some walking buddies/socialisation would help-his reactivity is mostly manageable.

I’ve rambled but I’m basically asking do you think I need an actual behaviourist/would it help with the specific issue of dogs running up to him on walks. I don’t want to pay loads just to be told to keep him away from dogs and give him treats when we see one and gradually get closer to them as he improves as it just doesn’t work like like that in real life. I’d ideally like to see what he’s like around other dogs off lead (we’ve been walking him on lead/putting him on when we see another dog). Has anyone had this issue and seen a behaviourist and has a dog that can now tolerate being approached without being aggressive?

My dog is very reactive so much so that he redirects and will bite whoever happens to be within his range!

No happy story here but there is a fantastic facebook group called Reactive Dogs UK. They have some really good advice and information on how to practice CARE with your dog. It so far hasn't worked with my dog, once he has seen a dog, nothing will distract him.

I think a behaviourist is a great idea so they can assess your dogs reactivity. He might be a frustrated greeter and need more socialisation. We have local socialisation walks where a small number of dogs get together.

I would definitely check out the facebook group as they can recommend behaviourists who specialise in reactive dogs.

I just try and manage as best I can by avoiding all dogs and becoming a ninja of we encounter one! Good luck.

My concern from reading your post is that you think it is a good idea to introduce him to more dogs to help his reactivity. This is a really bad idea.

Your dog is clearly showing an uncomfortable emotional state when near to dogs. Encouraging him to be near dogs whilst in that emotional state will only make him much much worse.

At the rescue when he was walked with other dogs he became used to those specific dogs (although in a stressful way for him) it will not help him generalise this to other dogs.

If you let him off lead with other dogs, he may depending on the dog be ok as he feels he is able to escape but way more likely is that it will increase his anxiety or fear. It will make him have to cope himself and dogs coping mechanisms do not align with a relaxed dog. He may lunge, bite, runaway it will be a negative encounter.

It is up to you if you want to put in the hours and work with a behaviourist. A qualified behaviourist recommended by your vet is the place to start, not someone calling themselves a behaviourist on a website. They should have a minimum of a Masters in Animal Behaviour.

My advice would be to Google the qualifications of the behaviourist. Many are unqualified and will do more damage than good the same goes for facebook groups where unqualified people give bad advice.
Ask your vet as the poster said above and look for qualifications. Instead of them vetting you , you vet them.

Thanks Polly, I think I see where you are coming from-forcing him to be near dogs when he is uncomfortable/being aggressive to get them to go away isn’t a good idea. I know it’s tricky to deal with introducing him to other dogs which is why we’ve kept him away so far as I don’t want him to be uncomfortable/misread anything and have a dangerous situation.
The way we did it with a dog trainer we saw’s dog and with a friends dog was to start off with both dogs on leads in an open space about 20 m away where he could see the dog but did nothing more than glance at it. We then gave lots of treats and only walked closer when he wasn’t showing any signs of being uncomfortable. We waited until he showed interest in the dog and decided to sniff it, it didn’t approach him ever. So we made sure it was on his terms and I don’t think he is uncomfortable meeting dogs in this way (I’m not an expert but fairly good at reading body language I think). This is what they did at the rescue too. I agree though that meeting dogs this way is unlikely to help much with helping him tolerate other dogs. I feel a bit guilty because the rescue said that he quite liked dogs when he had been introduced so I feel like I’m denying him this socialisation/stimulation by keeping him away from all dogs.

Re the hours and work with a behaviourist-are you able to be more specific about what this would entail? Would it be anything more than trying to avoid dogs and giving treats as soon as we see one from a distance at which he is aware that it is there but not reacting? We have been very diligent about doing this already-always take treats on walks and give as soon as he sees a dog and keep giving him until the dog has disappears. So walking past dogs isn’t really an issue-it’s just when a dog comes too close ie right up to him that this doesn’t help. I’m not sure what a behaviourist could advise to help with this apart from never walking anywhere where a dog may approach. And on balance I think that wouldn’t help my dog-I think he’s happier going for nice daily walks in fields and dealing with a dog approaching occasionally than never being walked or just being walked on roads where he sees lots of dogs (but on lead). So I think that’s where we’re a bit stuck.

Thanks-reactive dogs group is a good idea. And the dog walker/trainer is CIDBT level 5 if that means anything-I think it’s an online course but she is quite young and I think intending on doing further training. I have avoided because I agree that going to someone unqualified could make the situation worse-but her contact form and website seem sensible-force free, asks the same questions as the behaviourists and no red flags such as talking about dominance or anything. The only potentially controversial thing she says is that she doesn’t think behaviour around dogs can improve without training around other dogs and mentions pack behaviour-is this a red flag?

I think maybe you need to rethink how your dog is feeling a bit. (feel totally free to ignore this as I am not seeing the situation in rl and ame very much giving sweeping statements!).

Your dog has a fab life with you. He loves his walks, he really is wanting for nothing. You are working hard to protect him from feeling stressed when he sees other dogs and by the sound of it are doing a great job. He can feel comfortable walking past other dogs and is aware that you have his back.

The bit of his life when he gets stressed is when a dog approaches him.

I think I would acknowledge that this can be worked on a bit but really your dog does not want to be put in that situation.

I can assure you that he is not wanting to meet and greet other dogs, you are enough for him! He may tolerate other dogs but really he is totally content not to interact with them.

I would teach a lets go command and for several weeks work if possible on lessening his dog in face interactions and that may be enough to see him chill out a bit and tolerate dogs a bit nearer to him. There are other handling "games" that can help with a reactive dog. He will enjoy these and take the pressure of seeing the other dog and they can be very helpful and a bit more stimulating that the see a dog have some cheese approach.

-I think he’s happier going for nice daily walks in fields and dealing with a dog approaching occasionally that sounds like a good life to me and if you can lessen those dogs approaching it would be 100%.

If he is happy in some dogs company would you consider a dog sport? He would be around dogs but not having to interact with them. This can help some dogs if they are not over threshold. Scentwork is great as dogs work one at a time, he will find it tiring, stimulating and relaxing all in one go.

A behaviourist will look at the bigger picture and there may be other things that can help eg noise phobic dogs can also be reactive to other dogs, any dog with a seemingly small medical issue eg alleriges, upset tum can also be more reactive. However you know you dog best so I would be confident in your gut feeling.

Thank you, that does help. We have been managing ok an he does have a lovely life overall. Just every few weeks/couple of months we have a dog come and interrupt which probably shouldn’t happen (other owners fault really as we are careful to look out for dogs and warn them to call their dogs back-but I guess people aren’t very aware of reactive dogs/it’s just one of those things).
Scent work is a good idea though I will look into it as he loves sniffing out treats

I'd definitely try a behaviourist and look for recommendations before choosing. We have rescued two dogs in the last three years and both had spent time with a well known charity that has been very supportive to us. We (have been dog owners for a lot longer). The first dog we got was incredibly reactive to other dogs, cars, people, bikes, everything when out! It was awful to see him so stressed and we got help from a lovely woman who was a dog walker and training to get her qualification to become a dog behaviourist. She brought one of her very big very calm dogs to the session and after a short time had her dog walked on one side of a road with me walking our dog on the other. She really helped, we were talking to him too much and reinforcing his fear(she was telling us kindly) and clearly what we were doing wasn't helping!. Within an hour there was a massive change and she sent us a training plan and asked us to record on it after each walk and to contact her if we needed her again. We never needed to for him but for our most recent rescue(a blind dog scared to go out) she came again and has transformed this dog's life because the dog wouldn't go over our doorstep she was so nervous. I think without her help the second dog couldn't have come here and the first dog would still be struggling. Two visits in total from her - two happy dogs when outside!