When is ‘play’ more than play? (Puppy)

[ButcherBaker]

Have pup, 5m. He’s lovely and we’re getting there slowly with training, but this will be a work in progress I know.

Anyway, was out for a walk today with pup and DC. Massive, open field so he could have a good run off lead and we could practice recall with him. In the far distance I spotted an off-lead dog so put mine back on, as his recall goes to pot if he sees another dog.

Said dog comes bounding over. Fair to say he was a v energetic, bouncy dog. Mine isn’t anxious or fearful so this wasn’t a problem. They start interacting at full-pelt, no hanging about. However, other dog was so in his face, growling and jumping on him - at one point mine was underneath him and dog was mouthing him all over his face. Mine yelped as I think his ear was nipped. Owner was standing there, laughing and telling me over and over how much he “loves dogs” and is “so playful”. She made no attempt to recall initially, but when she did he ignored her (she said he was 9m).

So I’m wondering (this is my first pup!) -

Is this normal play? Is this what ‘dog-reactive’ means? Should her dog have been on a lead do you think?

My pup was completely fine btw. I managed to retrieve him by grabbing his harness, as other dog wasn’t giving in! But I’m not sure what would have happened if I hadn’t ended the interaction?

The other dog was displaying very bad manners imo, rather than aggression. And unfortunately the owner wasn't recognising that fact. Better to just call your dog away from that sort of OTT behaviour and reward him for coming back to you. Also don't be afraid to ask people to call their own dogs away from yours. That sort of play can sometimes escalate to silly levels of over excitement and nipping etc.

Her dog being 9m, prime teen dog phase, probably didn't help but she's not doing herself or it any favours allowing that kind of interaction.

Thank you.

I’m so glad I had mine on the lead, as I’m pretty certain he wouldn’t/couldn’t have come back to me.

I like the ‘bad manners’ description btw - makes sense as initially her dog didn’t seem aggressive, just super keen and excited. However, it did feel on the cusp of escalation at any moment!

Out of interest (I’m pretty green with all this!) how would you describe dog-reactive behaviour?

I'm no expert at all but I would say that a dog who reacts to situations due to fear or nerves, is reactive to an extent, regardless of how the dog expresses it. It's almost like a spectrum in terms of how a nervous or poorly socialised dog might react. My own dog is a rescue 3.5 years old and came to us as a 5 month old and hadn't been properly socialised as a small pup.She is high energy and had to learn how to play less boisterously, so she has never shown traditional aggression towards another dog, but wouldn't read body language, would body barge them, or do that weird stalking towards them, then darting at then suddenly. It freaked some other dogs out and I worked hard to stop her doing it. I would describe her as a reactive because of those behaviours. I prefer her to completely ignore other dogs actually, as it stops any chance of anything escalating. Phew that was a bit waffly but I hope makes some sense? Like I say I'm not an expert at all, our dog has been a huge learning curve! I would also recommend reading up about how to interpret/understand dog body language to help you identify what other dogs might be feeling in a situation as well as your own.

The other owner should be controlling her dog better. She shouldn’t be laughing about his behaviour. My rescue dog is old, and gets really upset when other dogs jump all over him and mouth him. They might be just wanting to play but he’s not up to it. Bad manners by the owners as well as the dogs.

Her dog doesn't sound reactive to me.

I would say it was different play styles with her dog being bigger and stronger than yours, but that she displayed extremely poor self awareness by allowing her dog to bound over when yours was on lead, and she should have called her dog off immediately and apologised, not laughed.

Many breeds (including beagles, huskies a and sight hounds, among others) play with their mouths and it can sound horrendous - lots of open mouth snarling and noise - but it's just play. I call it "bitey face"

However not all dogs enjoy that style of play (it seems like yours didn't) so owners have to be very aware of that and able to call their dog off immediately.