Getting dog used to being out of the crate

[TheBodyPiercer]

Due to a couple of issues our dog can no longer attend doggy daycare.

There's 3 days a week where we're both at work, we do have a Walker come in for an hour then one of our parents also comes by for an hour.

He's happily crate trained and when in there just sleeps but I feel guilty leaving him in there so long so we're trying to transition him out of it.

He still has access to his crate as well as kitchen and hallway but he just sits behind the front door crying and waiting for someone to come.

He's left with toys, kongs, treats etc. But he won't touch any of them until there's someone with him.

[quote Floralnomad]**@warmfluffytowels* if you seriously don’t see any issue with a dog being kept in a cage for potentially 16/18 hours a day then I’m not sure we will ever reach a meeting of minds . Would I want to see the dog stressed - no , but my answer would be to hire a dog sitter not lock it in a cage . @TheBodyPiercer* obviously rehomed this dog with the idea of using daycare and is working to fix the issue but the question has to be asked as to whether the rescue would have rehomed the dog to them if they thought it was going to be in a cage for 16/18 hours a day . I’m frankly concerned that a dog walker thinks it is ok for a dog to be caged for that amount of time .[/quote]
If you have any practical tips on easing his anxiety when out of the crate I'd love to hear them?

It's all good bashing crates but as I mentioned he was crate trained when he arrived. It's easy to judge when you don't know the dog and their issues.

My neighbour’s dog would howl all day when they were out but slept perfectly well in crate, but like you they didn’t want to leave her there. She had access to lounge and kitchen plus a dog flap to a good size garden. Their behaviourist suggested making her space smaller so she felt safer. They started her in a smaller room and gradually allowed more space. Would that be worth trying?

Have you tried the crate open but in a small pen indoors? A lot of dogs get anxious when the space is too big. I understand what it’s like having a reactive dog, we’ve had similar daycare issues with having a leash reactive, socially ignorant dog. It’s hard

@BabbleBee

My neighbour’s dog would howl all day when they were out but slept perfectly well in crate, but like you they didn’t want to leave her there. She had access to lounge and kitchen plus a dog flap to a good size garden. Their behaviourist suggested making her space smaller so she felt safer. They started her in a smaller room and gradually allowed more space. Would that be worth trying?

We do have some dog gates up so could close the kitchen and block half the hallway so they still have access to their crate and a small space. It's worth trying thank you.

@MikeWozniaksGloriousTache

Have you tried the crate open but in a small pen indoors? A lot of dogs get anxious when the space is too big. I understand what it’s like having a reactive dog, we’ve had similar daycare issues with having a leash reactive, socially ignorant dog. It’s hard

He's a 25kg bull breed, I don't think a pen would stand a chance 😂 we can make the area smaller though so I'm going to try that.

We are in a similar situation in that our girl panics and turns destructive when left out of her crate. We'd love to start giving her a bit more space especially when leaving her for the longer periods (4/5hours), or on hot days like today, but she gets so stressed out when we do.

We are trying baby steps, so leaving her in her crate, but with the blankets lifted up at the sides. Now we are leaving her in her crate with the blankets up and the utility door open. Hopefully we will soon progress to crate door open with access just to the utility and the corridor but at the moment she just paces and cries. Put her in the crate and she sleeps for hours, it's really hard to know what to do best so I feel for you!

I’m not bashing crates when they are used appropriately, it’s not IMO appropriate for a dog to spend more time in a crate than out . I’ve given a practical tip , employ a dog sitter in the same way as you’d employ a child minder / nanny until you have managed to sort out his anxiety . I will add I have a leash reactive rescue dog so I do realise that not all dogs are perfect and that it’s hard to solve some problems .

@Floralnomad

I’m not bashing crates when they are used appropriately, it’s not IMO appropriate for a dog to spend more time in a crate than out . I’ve given a practical tip , employ a dog sitter in the same way as you’d employ a child minder / nanny until you have managed to sort out his anxiety . I will add I have a leash reactive rescue dog so I do realise that not all dogs are perfect and that it’s hard to solve some problems .

Even if he was in there the whole time we were out for work (which he currently isn't) over the week he would not be spending more time in that out.

We have a god Walker. Dog walkers and sitters where we are that aren't just random people that have taken it up as a hobby are few and far between.

He will be better on his own than with an inexperienced sitter who's making his behaviour worse (like we previously experienced).

Thank you for everyone that gave practical tips, I will try them out.

Just commenting that it's not a good situation isn't helpful to anyone, I know, that's why I'm posting.

@Floralnomad this dog has many issues which the owner is working really hard to sort out. If the dog has to be crated for longer but is calm until she is able to work on the stress levels this may have to be the way forward in the short term.

It is easy to be righteous about your views on crate training but for some dogs it may be a managements tool whilst behaviour modification is in progress. Youi have made it clear that you never ever see a reason for crate training.

I don’t think averaging it out over a week is the answer but if it makes you feel better then fair enough .I was under the obvious misapprehension that dogs weren’t supposed to be left for more than 4 hours a day anyway , caged or not . I have made it clear in my posts that the owner is trying to sort out the problems but that doesn’t make it right . Unfortunately this just confirms my belief even further that cages allow people who otherwise wouldn’t have a dog , because they work etc , to have one because they can just lock it away where it does no damage .

I would try to section off a smaller area with his crate and see if that helps. Perhaps he’s feeling insecure in a bigger space. My Ddog isn’t crated, although I have one that she happily pops in and out of, and she’s kept in the kitchen, with a stair gate in one doorway and the other door shut, at night or if I go out. She’ll have toys and food/water plus her bed so she’s comfortable.

@Floralnomad

I don’t think averaging it out over a week is the answer but if it makes you feel better then fair enough .I was under the obvious misapprehension that dogs weren’t supposed to be left for more than 4 hours a day anyway , caged or not . I have made it clear in my posts that the owner is trying to sort out the problems but that doesn’t make it right . Unfortunately this just confirms my belief even further that cages allow people who otherwise wouldn’t have a dog , because they work etc , to have one because they can just lock it away where it does no damage .

I don't crate my dog because he causes damage, I crate my dog because he's distressed when not in there.

I leave for work at 11 today, my moms coming at 2. Would you rather I let him pace & cry for 3 hours or sleep in his crate for 3 hours.

We made every accommodation for him before rescuing regarding work hours. He was happily in a daycare for 6 months with no issue, she had to close. It was after this his issues ramped up (which we're clearly working on). So we didn't just get him to lock him up all day, hence my post & guilt about leaving him!

Circumstances change.

@TheBodyPiercer don't let one poster upset you. Some people are so against crates they can't see reason and you won't get a sensible conversation out of them. It's clear you are doing well by your dog and giving them plenty of care and attention!

Just a suggestion but look at something like 'dog buddy ' it's a bit like air b& b but for dogs as in as much as it's various individuals offering dog care / walk/ visits/ boarding etc on an app
Someone local to you might take him as a day care on his own for a reasonable fee , this may include a walk or two , up to you to come to an individual arrangement , each carer has received recommendations so you can see if they sound suitable , might be someone who can't have a dog of their own but wants some dog interaction
Worth taking a look ?

Would borrowmydoggy work?
We look after a very anxious dog a few days every week for the past year.
His owners circumstances changed as well and she could not afford doggy care.
It may not suit everyone and depends on the dog but just a suggestion!
Some family who would love a dog but cannot have the full time commitment like ours would love the arrangement
I hope you find something that suits you and the dog op!

You don't need to justify your choices @TheBodyPiercer :) it's clear to me you want what's best for your dog and for some dogs, that means they curl up in a crate and sleep. There's really no difference between that and the sofa as long as the dog is happy.

Like I said upthread, I used to walk a dog (who was sadly PTS a few weeks ago) who had to be crated when he was alone because he would have vestibular attacks and was at risk of falling and injuring himself - no doubt people would judge his owners but he was much happier and safer in his crate. Leaving him out meant he got confused, scared and would have accidents because he often forgot where he was.

As his dog walker, I knew 100% they were making the right decision and the dog was just fine in his crate.

I'm wary to try anything like borrow my doggy as he does need an experienced handler and I don't want to rock the boat now we're making progress.

To update on today, I made the area smaller and he took himself off to his crate and has appeared to have slept the whole time so we'll keep this up and see how he is.