Puppy will not house train, feel like throwing in the towel

[Tropics4]

Dear Mumsnet
I have posted on here a few weeks ago, I have tried for 9 weeks solid to house train my puppy, 18 weeks on Tuesday. I have given it my all, trust me. In the beginning going outside every 15 mins, watching him like a hawk. I always felt he didn't get it just I was catching 90% of poo and wee due to sheer vigilance. He is clean overnight in his crate but will happily pee or poo in it on occasion. I am replacing our lounge carpet, the only carpet downstairs at great expense, he has peed at least 3 times on it. I felt going forwards I would stress less. I have owned a Jack Russell before, for 18 years, he got it in about 3 weeks. This pup seems smart enough, has learned many commands, sit, stay, down, leave, quiet, take it, even relax ( this means to lie quietly on my lap). However, I need help, I feel for the first time like giving up, he also hates leaving the house for a walk, loves other people and dogs, likes nothing better than to sit by our feet chomping on a chew, couldn't care less about going it, he just drags back on the lead and if we turn around to come home he practically drags us, all 3.kg of him! .
Please did your dog take forever to house train? Any success stories for slow coaches? I feel if I can at least get on top of that I can carry on. He currently has Kennel cough (was vaccinated against it too). HELP!

Our pup is 9 months and he will stay happily wee inside if it’s any effort to go out. Apparently some dogs care more than others about keeping their den clean.

Have you tried doggy door bells?

Our pup had no access to the house except the kitchen until she was trained.

What breed or mix of breeds is he?

Did you get him from a breeder or rescue?

Do you leave your external door open?

What do you do when he toilets in the right place?

How often a day is he pooing?
What do you do when he toilets in the wrong place?

It's not a coincidence that people who've had dogs for many years, inc multiple puppies, generally don't have carpet downstairs.🤷🏼‍♀️

When we moved into our family home with two dogs and two children only the kitchen was uncarpeted - when I moved out 20+yrs later there was no carpet downstairs, laminate, tiles and washable rugs are your friend.

I've moved into a carpeted house - will keep it in bedrooms but everywhere else I will put a good quality vinyl tile or laminate. Winter muddy paws after just 5 mins in the garden for a wee are one reason - puppy training the next one I get is another.

Some dogs take longer to house train - to be honest I would not have expected any of my pups to be reliable at that age. Nine weeks is nothing really - it's like expecting a human toddler to be reliably potty trained before the age of 2yrs - some might be, others take longer.

14:43WeRTheOnes: I dont think I could cope with this, I respect your tolerance!
Warmfluffy: no I haven't tried doggy door bells, that was my next thought, thanks, have you any experience of them?
Polly: I got him from a breeder, one time litter, carefully chosen sire it seems and excellent health of both parents, good line. He is a small 'Much Wenlock Jack Russell, he poos about 3 times a day, we always catch the first morning poo and pee, infact we have gone a week - three times in a row - no accidents, thought I had cracked it, then two in one day yesterday and this morning peed right in front of me after 5 mins of coming in from garden (no pee). My other dog never asked to go out, we just let him out periodically through the day.
Stargirl: yes good idea re the kitchen but I anway keep him on the room I am in plus the kitchen has no access to garden, the lounge has.

Do you go out with him every time so you can praise him when he toilets and also start associating toileting with a command?

It will happen, all of a sudden he'll twig and it'll happen overnight

@BiteyShark was going to say the same thing. Guide dogs use this, our boy was ex guide dog and his marker was busy busy then when he goes he’d get a treat. Our pup circles when he needs, he’s older though, watch for your puppies cues & always take out after feeds and naps.

Ours is also only taken to go on lead then gets off once he’s done it or he can get distracted by the cat etc. If he’s going on carpet you need to clean it well with something that will take the smell away (simple solutions is good) or he’ll keep going back to that area - stick to the same area in the garden too they like to have a ‘spot’ you need to be quite regimented and consistent. You’ll get there

BiteyShark: yes I take him out every single time and praise him so much when he goes, we use the same word, 'toilet' I tried giving him a treat when he went at the advice of Mumsnetters but that just completely distracted him more, he can smell a treat 10 miles away! and if he had just done say a wee and I treated him you could forget the poo as he was so focused on me that toileting was simply forgotten. He is so easily distracted, a noise, a leaf, a bird fluttering, obviously I cant prevent these and the slightest distraction means he totally forgets why we went out there, its beginning to really get me down, even talking about rehoming and being honest as to why, I so dont want to do that but for me being clean in the house is important. I love him dearly but it is taking over my life - i have given it that much, also I'm not a novice with dogs or Jack Russells..but crumbs, i don't know where the missing link is here.
Bigbag: ...i so hope you are right, i really do.

Elevenses: We are taking the carpet up which is a shame as it's a beautiful Axminster carpet, even so I have used carpet shampoo specifically for pet stains, plus the carpet has ScotchGuard so the wee just sits on top, I absorb it with kitchen towels then thoroughly clean with said shampoo, plus he is tiny and so are his weed, not exactly a puddle.

His wee, not weed!" although maybe that might help us both!

Do you praise his the second he goes to the loo? I used a command with mine, in her case the breeder started the training with "do wees!" which we continued, and that seemed to work. Do you take him out on the lead or just let him out to do his business? If the latter, start taking him out on the lead and not let him mess about. It's not playtime. The second he starts to go really praise him, and he will get it.

Can you cordon off a section in the garden just for toileting or on a lead so he doesn't get distracted?

I can't remember when mine was completely toilet trained but I do know it took several months and certainly not before 18 weeks old. The accidents got less and he started to ask to go outside and would pee to command.

I think if your previous dog got it quickly then you might be unfairly comparing how hard or how long some puppies just take. When I read articles online it always seemed to suggest it should be done and dusted in a few weeks but when I went looking at more balanced ones they did say to be 'fully toilet trained' don't expect that under 6 months of age e.g, to always ask to go out and to hold it when they couldn't.

Catsrus: Not sure if I'm misunderstanding but he is 18 weeks almost, I have tried house training for 9 weeks solid..
Longtompot: yes I praise him the second he goes and yes he is always on a lead, we use a command too. Really grateful for any other suggestions or success stories

DDog was nearer 24 weeks before she was reliable with pees inside. She is a quick learner, could do lots of other stuff, but was just a bit slow with toilet training. Since then she has never had an accident inside except when she's been unwell and she's 8 now. Just keep persevering!

Biteyshark: that's good to hear that your dog took longer too, it gives me hope. Yes I know I shouldn't compare, losing a beloved dog after 18 years I can admit clouds my vision..its like when people die, they are suddenly immortalized as saints.

Elune: thankyou for your success story there, it's the sort of thing besides the good suggestions that I was hoping to hear, what breed is she?

Yes mine was around 6 months before he got it too and from 5-6 months he actually got worse not better! Keep doing what you are doing - some just take longer than others

A dog behaviouralist I know once told me two things - smaller dogs are harder to toilet train. And some take up to 2 years to 'get it'.

I really recommend checking out Zak George if you haven't already, he has loads of training tips.

Warmfluffy: no I haven't tried doggy door bells, that was my next thought, thanks, have you any experience of them?

Yes - they were great. Pop them by the door, and every time you take the dog out to wee/poo, ring the bells. They'll soon associate the bells with going outside to toilet. I used high value treats every time mine went as well, so he learnt only good things happened when he went outside.

If he gets distracted outside, keep him on a lead for now.

I do think 18 weeks is too early. One of my dogs was dry at night from day 1, but it took until 9 months for him to be completely dry in the day, not helped by being a bit nervous and not wanting to go out in the dark, when the weather was bad, etc.

@Tropics4

Elune: thankyou for your success story there, it's the sort of thing besides the good suggestions that I was hoping to hear, what breed is she?

She is a working cocker. Ridiculously smart but also as mad as a box of frogs! It felt like I was stepping in pee puddles forever but we just stuck with it and one day I realised I hadn't stepped in any for a week, and that was that! DDog responds well to clicker training so might be worth a try.

Ouch OP, I feel your pain!

I've had loads of dogs over the years (currently have 6), some I've got as puppies, and some were adults as they were Rescues, previously from living in awful conditions, so not house trained either.

I considered myself a house training expert..... until I got my youngest boy! I didn't get him until 13 weeks and he wasn't house trained until he was 19 weeks - I was genuinely considering buying shares in cleaning products and kitchen roll! As a PP said though, once he got it, he just got it - no more pees in the house at all.

It sounds to me like you're doing everything nearly right (watching him closely, taking him out on a lead, praising him at the exact time etc). I have 2 suggestions though. As he's so wild about the treats, I'd go against the grain and NOT give him one outside, don't even take one with you, leave it inside. Then just go full on over-enthusiastic with the praise "good boy to go pee pees, yay, well done, clever boy to do pee pees" etc when he's done it, take him inside and give him the treat then.

Secondly, if he hasn't done one outside and you're fairly confident that he should be needing, keep him on the lead beside you when you get back in. Less chance of Mr Piddly Pants peeing when he's right at your feet, and you can take him out again in 10 minutes or so.

A final tip - I used to write down the time he had a pee and a poo. I could then see that there was a pattern developing, so I could work out when to take him out.

Good luck!