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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

10 month old pup is biting and drawing blood

30 replies

SWCharlie · 13/07/2021 22:25

Has anyone had a similar issue and what did you do? My 10 month old Westie cross is biting every so often despite lots of one-on-one training and I’m about to throw in the towel and hand him to a shelter which will break all of our hearts. He has bitten from 8 weeks old when we first got him; family members, the vet and the groomer. We have enlisted the help of a behaviourist and put everything in place to prevent any biting opportunities, some of which were related to resource guarding. This evening my 15 year old son went to stroke him and he bit his hand for absolutely no reason, drawing blood. Aside from these incidents, which are infrequent, he is very loving towards all of us. Whenever I tentatively ask friends if their dog has ever bitten they say no, never. Even his siblings seemingly never bite. I would feel embarrassed to admit that ours does and I have not told anyone. I pretend he is the cute, adorable dog they assume he is. I’m so upset that everyone I know has trustworthy dogs that wouldn’t hurt anyone and I don’t. I didn’t expect to have this issue. I can of course carry on with endless training but the trust that he will never bite a stranger will always be there. Had anyone had a pup with this issue?

OP posts:

Direstraitsmates · 13/07/2021 23:34

I have had this problem with a previous dog. It did not end well. But our dog lunged at everybody within range. He really didn't like people or dogs and was that way when we got him. No other dog we have had has bitten past the puppy mouthy stage. At 10 months your dog may still be in the puppy stages and just late to learn that it isn't acceptable. Did your son surprise the dog when he went to stroke him? Some dogs can startle and bite on reflex if disturbed. I think you can deal with this by always approaching them in a noisy manner if you are going to touch them.

XelaM · 13/07/2021 23:53

I thought ALL puppies bite? With their sharp teeth! Is he biting out of aggression or in s playful way? Our 5-month-old is nippy - hands, feet etc. He doesn't draw blood but only because he's a toy breed so not that strong

percheron67 · 14/07/2021 00:00

You will have to be firm with him and really tell him off when he bites. Use a really strong voice and make him sit on his own for a while. Dogs must never hav e the idea that they are in control and can attack humans at any time. Please do not take the namby pamby approach that stops him put right when he is misbehaving. You would not expect a child to automatically do the right thing without proper training. Praise him when he does things to order but PLEASE use discipline when he bites. If he thinks he can bit when he wants to he will become more and more aggressive. PM me if you want to.

BluebellsGreenbells · 14/07/2021 00:04

Mine did when young and I would swipe at him - never hit, as his mother would do the same when young. They flinch so don’t you don’t need to hit to get the message across. You need a sharp voice and remove him from the situation.

Original poster

SWCharlie · 14/07/2021 00:47

Thanks all, definitely aggressive biting and not puppy biting. He snaps hard, usually in response to something he dislikes but nothing to warrant it today although he was probably tired. Yes he does have a bite reflex when napping so we never approach him then. Immediately he bit my son he knew he had done something wrong as his ears went flat and he looked anxious. He was reprimanded and removed with a very clear message and he knows I’m the boss but it isn’t enough to stop it happening. I’ve had a lot of help and advice but the problem remains. I’m not sure if it’s something that he will ever grow out now which is what I am stressed about and wondered if anyone had had a similar problem that had been resolved with time. He has to go to kennels on Friday for the first time and I will tell them of course but I didn’t envisage ever having this issue. He loves other dogs, no problems there.

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EccentricaGalumbits · 14/07/2021 01:20

I can't offer any advice about the biting but I really don't think you should give him to a shelter if you've exhausted all options and can't cope anymore.

A shelter won't rehome a biter, they will PTS. If that's going to be the eventual outcome it would be kinder to him for that to happen without the stress of being in a shelter first. (Also kinder to the shelter staff.)

I'm sorry, that's probably really hard to hear.

PollyRoulson · 14/07/2021 08:40

The bits that stand out for me are that you have had in behaviourists and trainers yest still believe or say "bites for no reason"

My conclusion to this is that you have had rubbish behaviourists (bet they were not qualified) and they have not given you correct advice.

At the very least they should have explained the triggers to the biting and a qualified behaviourist will know this. I am sorry that you have not been given the advice to help you deal with this.

I would go to your vet get a through vet check with bloods and get them to refer you to a qualified behaviourist.

Happenchance · 14/07/2021 18:23

I agree with @PollyRoulson, he needs a vet check and qualified behaviourist. In the meantime, I wouldn't stoke him unless he comes to you and instigates it.

I would feel embarrassed to admit that ours does and I have not told anyone. I pretend he is the cute, adorable dog they assume he is. I’m so upset that everyone I know has trustworthy dogs that wouldn’t hurt anyone and I don’t. I didn’t expect to have this issue. I can of course carry on with endless training but the trust that he will never bite a stranger will always be there. If you're worried about him biting people, don't let them approach him until you have figured out what his triggers are. Tell them that he bites if necessary!

He was reprimanded and removed with a very clear message and he knows I’m the boss but it isn’t enough to stop it happening. Have you ever reprimanded him for giving a warning, such as a growl or a snap?

Wilderforce2829 · 14/07/2021 18:51

We went through similar with our pup when he was around that age. They go through a secondary fear stage around that time so it could be fear related. This advice may not be relevant to your situation but it helped us:

-leave dog well alone when they're in their bed or sleeping

-don't go straight in and stroke them especially on top of their head. A lot of dogs don't like it.

-put them on a good quality food

-zyclene supplement

-adaptil plug in, in every room, on all the time

-muzzle train for vets/groomers

Unfortunately once you've lost that trust its very hard to get it back. I was also embarrassed at the start of this behaviour but its important you speak up for you dog. I'm very clear when out on walks just a quick 'don't stroke him, he doesn't like it' or a jokey 'stay back he can be grumpy'. Terriers can be tenacious. You have to protect the dog and the people. Same at home, everyone knows to just leave him alone. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Learn how to read their body language.

We've had no further incidents and he's now 2 and much more laid back but I'll always be cautious.

Best of luck.

Wilderforce2829 · 14/07/2021 18:52

And also, you should never ever reprimand a growl or air snap. That's their warning shot. If you take that away from them they may well just go straight to a bite.

Wilderforce2829 · 14/07/2021 18:54

And don't worry about kennels. They'll be used to all kinds of behaviour. Our kennels looks after a dog that they can't even make eye contact with! Just be honest with them.

Original poster

SWCharlie · 14/07/2021 23:48

Thank you Wilderforce, your comments have helped me enormously, likewise Happenchance and everyone else. I have made the connection now that he doesn’t in fact bite randomly but only under certain circumstances, and tiredness is a really big trigger for him. Great to hear that kennels are used to different behaviours and I don’t need to feel like a failure! I feel less disheartened now and ready to see how I can improve things with the right trainer. Thanks 🙂

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Wilderforce2829 · 15/07/2021 07:02

Thats great. Its a massive learning curve but once you understand what makes him tick you'll find things will settle. If its happening when he's tired then it's really important he gets enough quiet time alone to sleep. He needs to be left in peace. Actually, that was something our behaviourist spoke to us about as ours pups behaviour was related to tiredness too. They need far more sleep than you think so give him the opportunity AM and PM to have a proper nap.

crimsonlake · 15/07/2021 07:35

My friend had this with her cockerpoo, I was really shocked when I witnessed it one day, she revealed the nasty bites and bruises she had all over her. She consulted a behaviourist, visited the vet etc but in the end returned it to the breeder.
I do not think this story ends well, since the breeder went on to keep the puppy outdoors on a farm with her other dogs then declared she was going to rehome her.

warmfluffytowels · 15/07/2021 08:17

You say above that you told him off for biting. Has anyone in your family ever told off or punished him for growling and snapping?

Because if so, that may be where the "without warning" bit is coming from. Dogs growling is a good thing! It's their way of saying "I'm not comfortable with what you're doing - please stop now". If that growl is ignored or punished, the dog feels it has no choice but to escalate the behaviour next time.

I also agree with PP to stop stroking him at all unless he comes up and instigates it himself, and make sure he gets a full health check and a referral to a proper, positive behaviourist who is fully qualified.

sillysmiles · 15/07/2021 11:21

tiredness is a really big trigger for him

Is he crate trained? Does he have a crate/den that he can go to and no one can touch him?

he knew he had done something wrong as his ears went flat and he looked anxious. He was reprimanded and removed with a very clear message
I am not a behaviourist but did he know he had done something wrong, or was it more likely that he was anticipating your reaction?

Original poster

SWCharlie · 15/07/2021 12:12

Oh yes, possibly just anticipating my reaction. Good point. He does have a crate and he sleeps in it overnight with no issues at all. I tend to let him nap in any room in the house though which needs to change as his sleep is constantly interrupted by me moving to a different room or the teenagers appearing. I can see that now. He has never growled before biting so we don’t have the warning. He is however told off for any snapping so maybe that is his warning. Sorry to hear about the cockerpoo with similar issues. My son is now indifferent to the dog which breaks my heart as it wasn’t meant to be this way but I will perservere.

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warmfluffytowels · 15/07/2021 12:52

Please don't tell him off for snapping.

Snapping is a pre-warning to a bite. I know it's horrible and quite scary to see, but you must let him have a way to express his fear - if you tell him off for it, he'll just go straight to biting.

Have you heard of the Ladder of Aggression? It might be a good idea to research it - I suspect even if he's not growling, there are warning signs you're missing before he snaps.

Hoppinggreen · 15/07/2021 12:56

I had a Bitey puppy with some Resource guarding issues.
He never drew blood when playing, only when Resource Guarding before we learned how to manage it.
I am not an expert and you do need professional help but I would be concerned that your puppy is not biting in play and/or hasn’t got bite inhibition.

Ylvamoon · 15/07/2021 13:05

We had a dog like you describe when I was a child. The dog was a bit strange from the beginning and was very unpredictable as an adult. We had other dogs so we noticed something was off.

I think you can try with a behaviourist but
don't be disappointed if it doesn't work. Please don't pass him on to rescue places. He will just be passed around as he just might not be suitable as a family pet.

Original poster

SWCharlie · 16/07/2021 12:07

He does bite in play too and still grabs our shoes and will see the kids limbs as fair game for a playful grab if they are playing with him but he can be distracted by calling him away with treats for calming down. If only he didn’t properly bite too. I thought a shelter might find him another home with a trainer who could work with him but that might just be wishful thinking! I don’t want to give up on him yet if he will be PTS so back to the training with a good behaviourist. Thanks for all the comments!

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Audo · 16/07/2021 12:31

I am currently training my bitey terrier to associate me with treats . The matter is urgent. His bites are restrained at present. I am even hand feeding him . He is a quick learner, very intelligent so I think the reassure and reward system will work.

Original poster

SWCharlie · 17/07/2021 11:00

Funnily enough that’s what my trainer said Audo, he needs to learn all treats and good things come from me. Maybe it’s me who needs the training

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Catsrus · 17/07/2021 22:07

@SWCharlie

Funnily enough that’s what my trainer said Audo, he needs to learn all treats and good things come from me. Maybe it’s me who needs the training

It's usually us that needs the training! I moved from one (Useless) dog training club to a more traditional obedience trainer.

"well of course the dog isn't doing what you want it to Cats - you're confusing her."

Original poster

SWCharlie · 22/07/2021 10:18

catsrus. Kind of had a light bulb moment and have pulled my big girl pants on and am cracking on with training. Don’t give him anything to resource guard and teach him good things happen when he’s eating and I’m near his food. Fingers crossed.

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