Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

So frustrated please help!

28 replies

DIYDebs · 09/07/2021 21:10

Hi dog peeps, will try to give you a full-ish picture.

Ddog is 18mo, intact per vets advice as v nervous pup. Much more confident now although still a bit skittish with people/new environments. Never been brilliant with other dogs - very full on and boisterous, loves to chase, can be reactive and try to “dominate” more submissive dogs (don’t know how else to describe it: puffs up tall, tries to stand over/mount, has flipped and pinned other dogs on occasion, will growl and scuffle if the other dog reacts/doesn’t back down. P.s. most of this behaviour has happened when offlead dogs have run over to us. Or when we took him to “socialisation” classes on behaviourist’s advice (bad!). I’m not freely allowing him to batter other people’s dogs!). Then with some dogs he is FINE, usually larger, calm, confident males, and his sister. Was the largest of 11pups from not the best start (long story). Don’t know if that matters? He’s 28kg so big enough to worry about. Very high prey/chase drive. No longer trusted to play with any dogs except his sister, as they have similar drive and style.

For all of the above reasons, he has been under strict management from day 1 and really strict management from about 1yo, when his behaviour became less predictable. In hindsight, I definitely gave him too much freedom as a pup, but I was so focussed on building his confidence that I think I was a bit soft. He is now always on a long line around other dogs, which I avoid and reward calm from a distance. I have worked endlessly on recall, focus, obedience, calm, impulse control. We have done dogstrust classes and enlisted the help of a behaviourist. He has made huge, huge progress. Bombproof recall, zero interest in other dogs. Very focussed on me. So much calmer.

So. I recently started to let him off, off, when there are no other dogs around. He has been fab, only yesterday his recall was 100%, he was lying down letting other dogs pass, he even interacted fairly calmly with a couple of dogs he’s known from a pup (on lead).

Today. Let him off his lead to go for a swim. He spotted a couple of dogs I had not seen. He promptly pissed off at breakneck speed. I ran after him, to discover him jumping all over this poor man, with a terrified dog in his arms, desperately trying to get my marauding beast away. Partner shouting at me and obviously scared.
I think my dog had pounced on the other, which is why the man had picked it up, but I didn’t see the initial interaction; there was no growling/yelping from either. Another bigger dog in the mix, thankfully placid. In other words, a recipe for disaster. He would not recall. I could not catch him and he kept harassing this poor dog - not biting or aggressive, just jumping really excitedly (not to excuse that at all, but he’s not trying to hurt the dog … I don’t think). Eventually (probs about 40secs but felt like forever) got hold of him and apologised profusely, many times. Felt so terrible. And so fortunate this was not more serious. And I’m absolutely gutted and embarrassed. It’s really knocked my confidence in him, and in my ability to manage him without a lifetime of dawn-raid walks on constant alert, clutching a sodden, manky long line. Sigh.

What to do? Why is he doing this all of a sudden? Is he forever confined to a long line/no dog interactions? (How) can I improve his dog-dog manners? Should he be muzzled for extra safety?

Feel like we need a decent trainer with some bombproof dogs to practice around but I cannot for the life of me find one. Any suggestions gratefully received. I’m in Cheshire and will travel.

OP posts:
Postdatedpandemic · 09/07/2021 21:16

Long line and patience. Secure field hire. Keep looking for a trainer, behaviourist, gundog trainer.

Is he a HPR, pointer, vizla type dog? If so he is still a bloody delinquent teenager.
Have you tried a breed specific local group, FB is good for this.

Mine is finally growing up at 26 months

Orangeinmybluelightcup · 09/07/2021 21:18

Ah that's really difficult, sympathy op. I had a reactive big lurcher previously, high prey drive. I would say consider hiring a secure dog field to let him off the lead for a proper run once a week or whatever works, and otherwise keep him on a lead. Because if it does go wrong it could have serious repercussions. I found Behaviour adjustment training (Bat) was kind of useful you need to find a trainer or helper with stooge dogs. And fiesty fido is a good book imo. Really you're going to be managing this forever though.

GettingItOutThere · 09/07/2021 21:23

I have nothing further to add other than keep him on a lead/long line permanently. He might not be a danger as such but he is to other people and their confidence too. The amount of dogs nowadays who are just left to run upto others is unreal, that incident was not your fault but dont get a reputation for it
best of luck!

ginbramble · 09/07/2021 21:34

Yep you need to keep him on a long line. I have a 30 meter line that mine goes on in open spaces... plenty long enough for him to run around, but he can't go further than I want. When we see another dog I call him, if he ignores me I stand on the line so he can't go further and then reel him in.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 09/07/2021 21:41

I'm in a similar situation - I'd say two steps forward, one back.
Our confidence feeds into theirs, so try to move on from this. Back to basics, lead, distract, reward focus on you.
My dog is occasionally triggered by random dogs, it's frustrating as he is good now and calm/ignores 95% but then goes ballistic at the odd one. So I'm always on alert!
He's 2 this month, so just hoping he matures as well as continuing the basic training.

DIYDebs · 09/07/2021 21:45

Thank you both for your replies. They are so helpful and reassuring.

He’s a staffy cross not sure what, but fairly certain as we’ve got to know him that he’s got a good dose of malinois in him. Thought we were doing a good thing giving him a home but can see now we were incredibly naive and stupid, really!

Anyway, he’s our responsibility now and I have put my heart and soul into him. He gets lots of exercise, brain games, training every day. We are lucky that we have secure fields nearby so he always has 2 good walks a day, if not off lead then on his line, training with balls/tugs. It’s been a steep learning curve though, for sure! I’ve had dogs before but he is a different kettle of fish.

The sticking point is other dogs, where I am completely out of my depth tbh. I think you are absolutely right that I have been unrealistic in my expectations. And that is putting him and other dogs at risk. Back on the manky line for the foreseeable; not worth it.

A decent trainer with stooge dogs is exactly what I need. But where to find one? It seems to be a bloody minefield and the ones I’ve seen have not been great. I have been put off breed specific (mals) as I get the impression the training style is quite harsh, but maybe he needs that? I’m deffo soft on him as he was such a terrified puppy and I think I still think of him like that. Maybe that’s part of the issue.

I will deffo check out the book. And BAT. And hope he calms the eff down with age! Thanks again

OP posts:
PollyRoulson · 09/07/2021 21:54

@ginbramble

Yep you need to keep him on a long line. I have a 30 meter line that mine goes on in open spaces... plenty long enough for him to run around, but he can't go further than I want. When we see another dog I call him, if he ignores me I stand on the line so he can't go further and then reel him in.
30 meter?
Postdatedpandemic · 09/07/2021 22:10

www.amazon.co.uk/100ft-Training-Large-Various-Colours/dp/B00NB2AQE4?tag=mumsnetforu03-21 they are bloody lethal, I stick to a 10m

DIYDebs · 09/07/2021 22:11

And I definitely don’t want to be that owner. It drives me nuts when crazy dogs run up to mine and scare him/wind him up. And now here I am. Shamefaced and guilty of the same!! I won’t risk it again. Thank you all, you’ve been so helpful.

OP posts:
Sarahlou63 · 09/07/2021 22:11

Is he still intact? If so, why?

DIYDebs · 09/07/2021 22:14

Looks great. I think the one I have now is 10m, but this would give him more room to roam safely. On his line he’s great. Doesn’t pull or lunge. Ignores all dogs. I think he just got a whiff of freedom today and lost his head.

OP posts:
DIYDebs · 09/07/2021 22:16

Sorry, not sure how to reply to specific posts. New to this. He’s still intact because the vet and behaviourist advised not to castrate him as he was very nervous as a puppy. Now I am wondering if it’s time to try implant and see if that helps. Just so worried it would make him worse, if the behaviour is fear based? Minefield.

OP posts:
Sarahlou63 · 09/07/2021 22:22

Your 18mth old dog is full of male hormones - you describe it perfectly;

try to “dominate” more submissive dogs (don’t know how else to describe it: puffs up tall, tries to stand over/mount, has flipped and pinned other dogs on occasion, will growl and scuffle if the other dog reacts/doesn’t back down.

Have him castrated ASAP. He's not a nervous pup any more and it's cruel (IMHO) to keep him whole unless you intend to breed from him.

Sarahlou63 · 09/07/2021 22:23

BTW - does your description (above) sound like a 'nervous' adult dog??

DIYDebs · 09/07/2021 22:30

Sarahlou, this is precisely what I have been wondering. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info about castration and whether dogs can be “dominant”. But, no, what I describe above certainly doesn’t sound like a nervous dog!! I’ll speak to the vet.

OP posts:
ginbramble · 10/07/2021 17:55

@PollyRoulson yes 30 meter. It's hard to see how long it is in a photo so attached is a still from a video.. you can see it snaking on and off the edges of the photo following the path where he's been running. Got it from Amazon. Best thing I bought! Took a bit of practice using it. The secret is to ensure it's 'snaked' as the it's easier to stand on a piece closer to him if you need to stop him going further away. Don't grab it with your hands... bad rope burn I've learnt the hard way!

So frustrated please help!
Postdatedpandemic · 10/07/2021 21:50

Is that a GSP @ginbramble?

suggestionsplease1 · 10/07/2021 22:13

If he's from a large litter do you know what the other males are like if they are still intact or neutered? They're obviously all individuals and the fact that he was maybe top pup if he was the largest, but I wonder if knowing how they are might help give an indication of possible outcome for him? I think reactivity/nervousness can have a hereditary element to it.
(But chasing after dogs a good distance away does not sound like reactivity to me)

ginbramble · 10/07/2021 22:25

GSP? Does that mean German Shepard pup? Ifso no..,, Heinz 57!

Postdatedpandemic · 10/07/2021 22:51

@ginbramble

GSP? Does that mean German Shepard pup? Ifso no..,, Heinz 57!
German Shorthaired Pointer, he has the colouring and attitude. Some Heinz 57 turn out to be shoot day whoops a daisy.

He looks lovely and lively

So frustrated please help!
DIYDebs · 11/07/2021 08:52

I don’t know where any of the other male pups went, no. I know two of his sisters and they are both full on too. Both also nervous so I think at least some of this is defo hereditary.

I didn’t mean that the running off incident the other day was reactive, sorry, but that he has been reactive (as far as I understand it) in the past when off lead dogs have run up to him (pot kettle much?!) and as a little pup he hated other dogs - 1st one he ever saw he growled. Shock

I have always thought of him as a “dominant” dog; i.e. all the stuff I described in my
1st post. And that worried me. I got a behaviourist in when he was still a pup (4 months) as I was concerned about his body language/approach. I was told there is no such thing as dominance, that he’s nervous and making up for that, to keep introducing him to other dogs, take him to socialisation and keep him intact. None of this went well and unfortunately he escalated and I have avoided other dogs since. Now I wonder if the behaviourist read him wrong; as sarahlou says, what he did on Friday does not seem fear based and, while he is certainly nervous in some situations, he has been like this with other dogs since 12w old.

As you can tell I am just thoroughly confused with it all. I am going to keep looking for a decent trainer and talk to my vet about castration.

He was a dream again yesterday. Ignored every dog and even stayed in a down while a (out of control) chihuahua jumped on him. So weird. Just wish I could
Understand what makes him tick.

Thanks for your comment

OP posts:
StillMedusa · 11/07/2021 23:52

You just described my dog.. but she's a 2 year old girl.
Seemed over confident and a bit bolshy as a puppy.. now runs at strange dogs with a growl (gets the first word in) will happily play with some.. reacts badly to others.
Turns out she is ultra nervous. I'm working with a positive behaviourist..it's slow going but is helping. Always on a long line now unless we are somewhere completely devoid of dogs and people (she can react to strange men too).
Look up ReactivedogsUK on FB... amazing community with professional advice... our dogs aren't bad, they just need support to cope with the world!

FudgeFlake · 12/07/2021 00:03

I came on purely to suggest an hormonal implant if full on castration is something that vet thinks would be a bad idea. For a couple of our clients with our dog care business this was a good way ahead while everyone waited to see how things would pan out. FWIW everything did pan out okay in the end, most of it was just doggy adolescence.

DIYDebs · 12/07/2021 09:29

Still Medusa - that sounds exactly like him. Interesting it may not necessarily be a testosterone issue and certainly he has been like this since day 1. The behaviourist certainly thought it was fear driven but unfortunately the modification plan/ongoing support was non existent and eventually never heard back. So frustrating. I will try again. And look at the FB group, thanks. He has improved a bit since doing CARE so I’m still not ruling out fear/nervousness as the root cause.

OP posts:
DIYDebs · 12/07/2021 09:37

Fudge - thank you. I think that is a great idea and I will discuss with the vet. The worry, obviously, is that if fear IS underneath all this bluster, then castrating may make him worse. But that sounds like a really good way to find out.

Poor dog was attacked by 2 mad (offlead!!) sharpei yesterday. Thank god he was not off lead or it could have been much worse - pretty much picked him up by the harness and ran! No physical damage done thankfully but hoping it will not make his behaviour worse. And now will be worrying about seeing these dogs again as I’ve seen him a few times and he always walks them offlead - even through the town centre Hmm. And then shouts at them when they inevitably start on other dogs. Prat.

The joy of dogs, eh?!

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread