Schedule for working cocker 4 mths old

[FluffyDogMother]

Intrigued as to how those with cocker experience would schedule walks, training, sleeping etc for this breed.

We're used to working Golden's, but it seems this pup is on a new level of nuttiness!

Currently:
6.30am First walk (20-25mins)
Home then 30mins light play with "biting" toys
7.30am breakfast
Loo break then in puppy pen for a nap (school run time!)
8.30am DH returns so loo break then given some attention,
9.00 am DH starts work (works at home) - pup in pen for rest
11.30 am Loo break and training/play time
12 noon - Lunch
12.30pm - on-lead walk
1.00pm rest time in pen
3pm Loo break, light play then in pen (school run)
4pm kids back from school - they play with pup incl outside in garden
5pm I come home - 30mins training then 30mins play (snuffle mat etc)
6pm Dinnertime
6.30pm Human dinner time - pup in pen (will sometimes rest, sometimes not)
7.15pm Playtime
8pm Last walk
8.30pm Rest/sleep

The above is all roughly how a weekday runs. Does it sound about right?

The main questions are, is it sustainable for you.

And is the dig happy and settled? Any behaviour problems?

Oh a photo please. I am a life long cocker owner, my working is in bed with me now. I adore them and would love to see

My 4 month working cocker doesn't really have much of a routine. Wakes up around 6, goes out for a pee, hangs about in the house playing with an old tea towel or tug rope til breakfast at 7ish. More hanging about getting occasional attention for sitting, looking, or some heelwork. Today we went on a bit of a trek off-lead walk at 9, went on lead for a bit of 'don't chase the sheep' training and met 5 other dogs which was lots of fun. I then was working and she was sleeping and chewing on a cows ear til around 1pm where she had lunch. Then some retrieve training and then she worked out how to get up stairs while I was in a meeting, I extricated her from my daughter's room and brought her back to her pen downstairs and moved the stairgate. She played with a plastic plant pot til my daughter got home and then played with my daughter. She's now asleep again in my office.

The photo is a bit 'spot the dog' I'm afraid.

This is probably a better photo

@Ladylokidoki

The main questions are, is it sustainable for you.

And is the dig happy and settled? Any behaviour problems?

Oh a photo please. I am a life long cocker owner, my working is in bed with me now. I adore them and would love to see

It can at times feel like he needs to be entertained or he gets up to mischief (eg ripping up bedding plants, chewing sofas etc). He has to be contained therefore in his pen, but he will complain loudly. We feel like tag team, constantly watching the dog at the weekends. It doesn't make for relaxing family time! He can still pee in the house even if the patio door is open to the garden.

He will follow commands with treats, but seems to go deaf with no treats.

He's quite switched on - will take me out to his bowl when hungry, will bring his snuffle mat to me when finished. He worked out his two Nina Ottoson toys quickly and completes them in a couple of minutes. Kongs ditto!

If he rests on his blanket, as soon as one of us gets up to do something he will follow us. He loves cuddling up.

He can still be bitey and snappy, but there is slow improvement. He can go a bit loopy on walks (lunging and snapping) but we figured this was over stimulation. Wet weather makes his walk behaviour even worse - 10 min one evening was all he could handle. DH loves him dearly (our goldie was his best mate) but for the first time has said he regrets getting him because he feels so full on, even with the schedule.

Does it all sound normal?!?

In a honesty, personally, I found it too full on and wondered if the dog was over stimulated.

There's alot of training for a 4 month old. Like the 4pm-6pm the dog is consistently being stimulated and may find it too much.

Infact, 4pm to after his last walk is all quite stimulating. Which can be good, but too much can make a dog over tired. Which means excitable, naughty, bite etc.

And if its not working for you and feeling like hard work, you will end up with cocker than needs pts of stimulation and may find it hard to settle. It needs to be enjoyable for you all.

But on the other hands if the games are too easy, they aren't doing their job either.

I would personally recommend you work on more, out of the pen chill time if you can. Maybe do shorter training sessions and leave a gap between training and snuffle mats and enrichment. Recall training can go on all day, in bits calling the dog to you on occasion for no reason than to give a treat.

Also the digging the garden up etc, they do need to be watched every minute. Our youngest was terrible. We got her just before lockdown. Last summer we had to keep the door to garden shut with windows open so she was only out when we were and we could watch her every second and tell her no as she started. This summer she has been great. But it appears he does that if he isn't engaged by you. Which again, could be a sign he is learning he always has to stimulated and isn't sure how to settle himself without being in a pen.

Does he get off lead walks? Total recall is an excellent book for recall and keeping a dogs attention on you on walks, which is the key to recall.

Cockers can be difficult because the line between bored and over stimulated can be very fine.

Have you every thought about gun dog training? Great for working cockers and their owners even if the dog will never actually be a gun dog.

He will probably always follow you every time you get up though. That's fairly standard.

Working cockers are fabulous dogs but do need a strict, but loving hand and getting the balance can be tricky.

The first thing that stands out to me is that he's not sleeping anywhere near enough. Puppies should be sleeping 18-20 hours a day and it seems like your puppy is getting 12 hours, if that. That's not enough. I would cut out one of the walks and one of the play sessions and replace them with 90 minute/two hour naps.

For example at the moment, the puppy is being constantly being stimulated between 3pm-6pm. Playtime (with the children and alone, followed by half an hour of training and more playtime. They really, really don't need all of that.

Training should be in 5-10 minute bursts throughout the day - half an hour is, imo, too much all at once. Drop it down to 10 minutes and do two other sessions at different times instead.

Also, don't underestimate the value of teaching a dog to settle down. I used a lead on my dog to make sure he slept during the day - I would pop him on his bed/on the sofa and tether him so he couldn't get up and mess around - he had to sleep. It worked within days.

They're like toddlers - they don't know that they're too tired and that they need a nap - you need to enforce that for them :)

O gosh I remember the hell of the cocker puppy period 😂 Mine really benefitted from having a crate where he could just completely chill out safely for a couple of hours here and there. Otherwise he was non stop until bitey and exhausted...he would just not settle to sleep himself.

Things that they can chew safely...eg antlers, those dry cheese sticks perhaps? And we saved every single plastic bottle and put kibble in for him to try to get out. This also helped manage guarding behaviours in a way, because he realised that if he gave them to us we could release the last stuck treats for him.

Good luck, it'll be much easier in 5 years time 😲😀

Sounds very organised! My 4 month old doesn't have a routine as such.

She wakes up 5.45/6am and goes out for wee/poo then usually chills or goes back to sleep in front room. 7am breakfast, then plays or chills for a bit. 8.25 she goes in kitchen while I do school run, 8.40 we usually go for a walk (unless she's asleep!) and then when we get back she'll nap for an hour or two. If she was asleep and missed the morning walk, we go for a walk at 11 to pick youngest up from preschool then back home for lunch at 12 in a puzzle ball or snuffle mat to keep her busy while we eat. Then play/training in garden for a bit, then she'll chill with a chew/antler and nap again until 4 when children home from school then a bit more of a play then chill/nap until 5.30 dinner, then she will play some more or chill until my youngest is asleep at 7.15ish and we go for another walk where she gets some off lead run around time. Back home and calm play/training and then she chills/naps in front room. We let her out for last wee 9.45/10pm and then she goes into her crate for bed.

Reading that back it does sound like a routine but really we go with the flow if she's tired I let her sleep and adjust the times we go for walks, same if it's too hot or torrential rain we go earlier/later. She can be quite attention seeking at times like if she's awake and I'm trying to cook dinner she barks as she can smell it. She does also dig in the garden which is a pain I hope she grows out of it as it's hard to constantly distract in the garden!

We have a lab and he’s only 3 months so my opinion might not count 😂 but I also think he needs an extra nap in the early evening. It seems that he has lots of rest in the day time (because he needs to as you’re all working/ at school) but then it all goes crazy once work has finished and he’s probably getting tired, and so are you and you want your own down time. Does he have chews like pizzle sticks? I bet our puppy has spent a good 2 hours today chewing on one pizzle stick and it makes him sooo chilled out!

We have a four month old cocker. I work 4 days a week, DH works full time from home. Pup gets full on training and attention (including walks) from 10-10:40, 12:30-13:00 and for about 1.5 hours after I get home from work at half past three. Other than that she chews her toys, plays by herself in the garden or snoozes in or near her crate. Often there is someone in the room with her, but not all the time. She goes in her crate for the night between half past eight and nine.

@Enb76

This is probably a better photo

Ah, cutie! DH insists on a routine as it fits around his job. He was the same when we had kids

DH insists on a routine as it fits around his job. He was the same when we had kids

Lots of people do. It's just a choice that we don't. I can't be doing with the dog trying to wake us up if I manage asleep in.

Or if I have an early call and have to do the walk later, I don't have them kicking up a fuss.

But routines do work for some. I do think it could be less intense. But keep the routine.

Thanks @Ladylokidoki. I'd be more than happy for him to have another nap just before his dinner or whilst we have ours, but it's hit and miss. Sometimes he just won't settle - crying and jumping up onto the metal bars on his pen.

He's chilling with me right now, chewing on a toy, but hasn't slept since 3.30pm (for 30 mins).

How do we train him to settle and sleep when he's refusing to do so?

@cupsofcoffee
Any suggestions on how I can get him to settle (see post above - he will sometimes refuse and kick up an alright racket!)?

@FluffyDogMother I don’t have a cocker but what I did with my pup was to go to any crying, give a little cuddle to reassure him then put him back in his crate. He soon got the idea that he was to settle down in his crate and making noises didn’t mean he got to come out. It probably helped that we covered the crate so that he couldn’t look at us and get all fomo.

We usually give them a chew in their bed and when they come out, keep taking them back. It's a lot better if they know 'bed' as a command.

When they stay for a 3 or 4 mins I call them off and praise them. Then work up time from there. They learn they get praise or a treat when they are called off.

Thinking about it, it's the one bit of a routine we did have. We did this at 8pm at night to train them to settle on an evening.

Then once the evening is cracked, do it during the day. Or start with during the day and work up to evenings. Whichever suits.

Also do the same if we are relaxing and they want to be with us. Let them on our knee and if they don't settle, put them on the floor and don't let them up. Then invite them again, when they settle down I praise them. They soon realise they get longer cuddles, when they settle.

And that's all training but in short bursts. Once they have learned to settle and relax sometimes they seem much easier and chilled out in general.

I have two working cockers and don’t remember having a routine with them ( had littermates) at that age. I only walked them for about 15 minutes twice a day at that age as they played a lot. I would do a bit of find the sock, toy game in our field and a little basic training throughout the day for a few minutes at a time, stuffed Kong or puzzle ball. Other than that they used to potter about with me or DH and sleep whenever they needed too. I would also take the to places in the car, which would involve something positive as my previous dog was a bad car traveller. We would often take them with us to places like a garden centre for a brief walk and good to socialise with people also tired them out. Puppy classes used to leave them shattered too.
They dug the garden repeatedly, scaled the fence many times, chewed many belongings, duvets, phones, shoes, skirting boards, would wrestle and play fight through the house ( still do ) finally relaxed a bit at about 18 months. One of them toilet trained quickly the other took a bit longer as he had a weak bladder that stopped as he matured. I used to take them out and give a ‘be clean’ command with reward and praise. I would do this even with our back door open into the garden. 11 years later they are very chilled but still prone to a little wocker madness and a fair amount of exercise.

[quote FluffyDogMother]@cupsofcoffee
Any suggestions on how I can get him to settle (see post above - he will sometimes refuse and kick up an alright racket!)?[/quote]
You get a crate, put him in it (well, set it up so he willingly goes in for favourite treats) and then turn around and studiously ignore any howls, barks, whimpers! If you return during the howling etc he has trained you to respond to his calls for attention, so it has worked for him, and he will keep on doing it.

You obviously need to ensure he is safe, has had his needs taken care of, like toileting, water and a full stomach, comfort of temperature is ok, no pain because if injury etc, but after that you just need to wait it out and endure the noise! Only return when he is quiet...then he learns that is when he gets attention, not when he is noisy.

[quote FluffyDogMother]@cupsofcoffee
Any suggestions on how I can get him to settle (see post above - he will sometimes refuse and kick up an alright racket!)?[/quote]
Pop him in his crate or pen with a chew to help him calm down - ideally in a quiet room or space away from from the children and all the excitement.

Frozen kongs should last him a while or you could just give him a carrot or an antler. The whining and jumping is for attention and every time you give him, you're teaching him that if he wants fuss from you, all he has to do is whine

Always make sure he's been to the toilet before popping him in the pen as well.

@suggestionsplease1 You get a crate, put him in it (well, set it up so he willingly goes in for favourite treats) and then turn around and studiously ignore any howls, barks, whimpers!

Umm... No. What a great way to get your dog to hate their crate.

OP I have a 9 month old cocker and I feel your pain. I swear she barely slept for the first few weeks and was just on the go constantly. We tried everything, all the advice said she needed X hours of sleep and we tried to enforce this. She hadn't read the books and decided not to sleep that much. 4 months was a turning point for us actually, she suddenly started sleeping through the night and she gradually got calmer.

Ours is on a totally different schedule as we're later risers. She gets up about half 8 and goes to bed about 11. We didn't have much of a routine at 4 months, it is a bit easier now. One thing really, is that how you foresee pup's routine being as he gets older? It's a lot of time in his pen. I know you're saying he needs to be entertained or will cause havoc - that's cocker pups I think. He doesn't have much time just chilling with you and the family. It won't be relaxing at first but you should get him used to sitting with you (in the evenings for example). Mine is now fabulous and totally chilled in the house - but even at almost 10 months I cannot WFH with her in the house. It's not fair on her, she needs too much attention. Your DH may have to readjust his expectations. Mine goes to daycare if we're both working. You may want to consider this a day or two a week even, it tires mine out and keeps her happy. She'd be bored stiff sitting in with me working 5 days a week.

@ashmts my cocker absolutely loved his crate - it was his safe space, his retreat, and he would return to it on his own to sleep without being put in.

But, absolutely crucially, we had to get past the initial periods where he tantrummed to get his own way (and his own way was to be allowed to carry on in a state of exhaustion and maul us so that we had to wear long sleeved tops to work in summer to avoid the questions and stares from colleagues). It was not a safe way for him, or us to continue. He was not contained by puppy pens and performed dangerous manouevers to escape, he would chew the walls, the skirting and the edges of the doors if left in a room.

He also developed quite serious resource guarding issues when very young, and if he happened to fall asleep anywhere else in the house he would start guarding the nearest object to him when he awoke - a tissue, a carrier bag, a slipper, a pot plant...you name it, it didn't matter. Being in the crate meant that we could regulate the environment so that he didn't wake up in a guarding state of mind.

The crate was an absolute godsend for us and for him, after some periods of tantrumming the first times it was used he settled down and got the solid rest he needed to be a happy, relaxed and trainable boy after the sleep.

But, had we made the mistake of always giving in to the the tantrums, he would have learned that that was all he needed to do to get out again, and start mauling us again. We needed to push through that in order for him to get to a state where he could rest. I never knew a dog could be like this - I grew up with labs who were a doddle - I had never seen anything like the sort of behaviour this cocker was capable of for the first few months!

@suggestionsplease1 I've crate-trained a cocker too and we didn't have to resort to that. Yes it was probably a longer, slower process but we got there. We just constantly supervised her until she was crate-trained. Maybe you feel it was necessary for your dog but it's not really advised. Mine went through a phase of barking ten minutes after bedtime (aged about 6 months). I didn't decide she was tantrumming and leave her to it. I went down, waited till she was quiet, let her out for a cuddle and a wee and put her back to bed. She stopped doing it after a week or so, so it's not like she thought 'hmm I can get their attention this way'. She must just have needed us.