Is it impossible to train a dog with nuts?!?

[DrinkGirlsFeck]

I have a 12 month lab-springer cross. He's lovely but hard work.

We managed to have puppy training before the last lockdown and I've been doing online training during lockdown. I longline train and his recall is good as long as no other dogs are on offer.

I have persevered hard with heel and other training with him and he is far from perfect but getting there. Great with the children, fine with people (a bit nervous with new people but only for a few mins) and a lovely relaxed dog at home.

We've been able to go back to the trainer for a second course. He can do the training but still finds the other dogs v distracting.

The trainers are trying to pressure me into castration as they say his high drive and distraction is hormonal. My vet (and the scientific papers I've read) advise holding off for larger breeds until 12-18 months to build bone density. They also advise that early castration can cause other behavioural problems without even necessarily solving the ones that people are trying to solve.

I will probably get him done but was going to wait until he's about 15+months. My last dog had horrible arthritis at the end and I hated it.

Is it really not possible to train a hyper springer cross with his bits intact?

I don't think his balls have anything to do with it - you have an excitable, young breed of dog that generally have tons of energy

He'll calm down, but neutering isn't the answer imo.

Thanks Cups. That was pretty much my view. I'm familiar with Springers as I grew up with them and had a working-strain loopy cocker myself. If I wanted a low energy breed, I'd have got one...

I do want him to be a bit calmer around other dogs so his recall is better. Sadly, all I'm getting back from the trainer is that male dogs should be neutered early to prevent any behavioural issues. Am losing trust in the trainer TBH.

Try pieces of chicken instead.

Thanks Cissy - we had a range of treats. Including chicken, bacon, beef jerky etc. The other dogs are just way more interesting than any food.

@cupsofcoffee

I don't think his balls have anything to do with it - you have an excitable, young breed of dog that generally have tons of energy

He'll calm down, but neutering isn't the answer imo.

This

Also meat generally works better than nuts

I think he would prefer chicken to nuts.butbin all honestly he is a lab-springer there is a limit to his trainability given that his natural instinct is to be a loopy garbage disposal.

Sorry - the treats aren't nuts but the trainer doesn't seem to think it's possible to train him unless we castrate him.

He is loopy. But also lovely.

I have large breed dogs, don't castrate until he's fully grown, he needs the hormones for his growth. I waited until mine were 2 years old

We have a golden retriever and along with my trainer and vet have decided to get him the implant initially and see how we get on, he is v anxious so don’t want castration to affect his confidence. He’s really well trained loves people and kids, just not a fan of the world - really working on it but castration will not be an option for the time being.

Could you get a new trainer, someone positive who understands dogs, I am bias as my sister is a dog trainer and is fab she can get a dog to (eventually) do anything, however it’s as much training you as your pup, we are on absolute dogs, did sexier than a squirrel and now training academy (same methods as my sister uses) and he’s coming on leaps and bounds.
Perhaps changing the way you train is all he needs, I don’t think early castration in a young dog is necessarily the answer here.

Also, my boy now has no nuts, and is still loopy 😂

Honestly, I would switch trainers.

I also have a high energy breed and the only difference that came from neutering was his interest in next doors' unneutered bitch.

He DID calm down but that came with age rather than because we got his nuts chopped off

I have a springer and had him neutered at four. I wish I’d done it earlier, overnight he was like a different dog. He all of a sudden came back when we called, stop trying to hump things, stopped ripping his toys to shreds. He is still a little mad like all spaniels but much calmer and more settled.

Your trainer is clearly not following the current science which says that neutering early is the cause of behavioural problems not the cure.

Thanks all. I'm going to explore some other trainers.

I just don't like the lack of engagement with the science. He rubbished the bone density evidence/reason for delaying neutering. And my dog is not displaying problem behaviours apart from distraction around other dogs. I need help to train me and him to create focus and calm, not just a 'chip his balls off'.

@21Flora - thanks for that. The only legitimate reason I can see right now for neutering would be to avoid him straying. I guess I'm hoping to avoid it until he's properly mature.

*chop, not chip!

At 12 months he’s a teenager, bound to think he knows best. My (castrated) collie crossbreed was just the same, minus his nuts. He had to lose his because they didn’t drop. Eventually he learned that if he didn’t come back then he was back on lead for a few walks. What worked for me was some agility training but he still bogged off even then.
Let him keep his hormones for his bones

Pros and/or cons of neutering aside, a trainer that washes his/her hands of an intact dog is not much of a trainer at all.

Not least because most high performing working dogs are intact so that breeding is an option (for lineage and money). Which rather spits in the face of "you need to neuter to train a dog".

Whatever you decide, OP, you are absolutely right to put your dog's welfare above all. Even if that means finding a new trainer that shares your own values.

@DrinkGirlsFeck

Sorry - the treats aren't nuts but the trainer doesn't seem to think it's possible to train him unless we castrate him.

He is loopy. But also lovely.

Get a new trainer

Thanks again. @SpringersLoveSofas (great name and ours definitely does) I had this exact conversation with my dad (who grew up on a farm). It can't be IMPOSSIBLE to train an intact dog - I'm willing to believe mine is a particularly loopy chap but he is a nice trainable dog in all other respects.

Am on the case with a new trainer - have arranged for a 1-1 session with a locally recommended person.

I mean, how could you not love that face?

@MoreMorelos - our cocker was loopy until he was about 7. Nuts or nutless.

I also thought you were using peanuts as treats 😂.

My working cocker is still entire at 8. He never showed signs of sexual behaviour, but was a bastard for coming back and was on a long line until nearly 2. The teenage years were really tough going with him. He's still batshit, but never goes after females or tries to hump anything so our vet told us to leave him alone.

Gorgeous dog!
I agree with you OP, castration isn’t the answer to your training issues. We have a poodle male who is very bouncy and energetic. He has been fairly easy to train, but has his moments!
We castrated at 14 months and it’s had zero impact on his energy/temperament/training etc.

But speaking of nuts… ours goes wild for pistachios so we do actually use them for training treats