What do I do now.

[TheBodyPiercer]

No judgement please, but our latest dog walker/Sitter has quit after an incident yesterday.

Main points are
Rescued dog march 2020 at 5 months old we were his 5th owner.

Was an absolute nightmare in the home but that has improved.

Was doing fine in daycare but it closed.

Kicked out of 2 other daycares for being to boisterous.

Hired a dog Walker instead but his reactivity got worse.

Stopped dog Walker walking him and walked him solely himself and his reactivity has improved somewhat.

Dog Walker was unreliable so let her go and found another to just sit with him for a few hours. All fine until yesterday when he started biting at her clothes and inevitably biting her in the process (hes 25kg). Shes quit.

We've worked with a trainer. We've done a board and train. We have sessions booked in with a behaviourist.

But we have to work, I've already reduced my hours but at least 2 days we are out 9am to 6pm.

I can't put him in daycare. I've literally exhausted every option regarding walkers/sitters, he can't do group walks, there are no kennels that will take him just for the day.

He can't stay outside as he barks at everything that walks past so neighbours would eventually complain.

I love him to pieces but I'm at a loss what to do and it's ruining my life.

Any advice!

Easy dogs means you can have more of them and make more money. I would not judge a dogs future by the actions of money making people.

Absolutely - but OP has to work and if she can't find a walker or daycare to take her dog, her options are sadly going to be pretty limited.

I have a some "difficult" dogs on my books who have been sacked by other walkers or daycares but none of them have ever bitten anyone. A dog that bites is a liability when it comes to peoples' insurance, unfortunately.

@PAW326

Is he an EBT? If so we went through exactly the same situation with ours. We had to build a kennel/run for him in the garden because he was too boisterous to expect anyone else to look after him. He did settle down after a few years but it was really hard work and quite embarrassing when he would throw a hissy fit because he wasn't allowed to greet another dog or join on a game of football. He would never bite anyone else or other dogs but would jump up and bite our sleeves/the lead and just generally show us up 😲 because he couldn't get his own way. They are not like other breeds, I think they more akin to a toddler than a dog. I agree if you rehome him he will probably end up being passed from pillar to post forevermore. I will PM you with the trainer we went to because he was great with that breed and really helped us. Sadly our dog died just before Christmas aged 11, we were devastated as although he was such hard work we never gave up on him and he was a much loved member of our family. We are now just about to adopt another one from Dogs trust, we must be suckers for punishment.

He is an EBT cross yes but shows distinct EBT characteristics.

To those who have asked yes the behaviour is manageable to us as we can read the signs and understand him. A new dog sitter obviously hasn't got to know him for the past year plus.

The daycare he was last with had mostly smaller dogs, pugs etc so obviously his boisterous play with them wasn't acceptable.

I am confused of the actual issues he dog has.

Over arousal is not the right emotional state to put in a large doggy day care situation but would be fine with an experienced dog walker with the correct mix of other dogs.

Or initially pay more for individual walking and than add to group of dogs. But you would need a trained dog walker not just someone who walks dogs - there is a huge difference.

Biting at clothes is not an aggressive dog and as I have said before should be able to be dealt with by a good dog walker and will in no way at all affect insurance. Just put a muzzle on it!

In many ways I think the OP has just not meet the right people to help her with her dog hopefully the behaviourist will have people that can help in the day care situation.

I do but I am not in the area of the OP although will ask around

@cupsofcoffee

Easy dogs means you can have more of them and make more money. I would not judge a dogs future by the actions of money making people.

Absolutely - but OP has to work and if she can't find a walker or daycare to take her dog, her options are sadly going to be pretty limited.

I have a some "difficult" dogs on my books who have been sacked by other walkers or daycares but none of them have ever bitten anyone. A dog that bites is a liability when it comes to peoples' insurance, unfortunately.

Not trying to drip feed but the first daycare (April - October) where all was well was a home environment, no issues really reported, she mentioned he got over excited sometimes but clearly she could deal with it as he was there several months.

Second was a home environment (nov?) we pulled him out after 2 sittings as she was not suitable at all and we feel this is where his behaviour deteriorated further.

3rd daycare (March) again home environment he was just far to boisterous with the smaller dogs and whilst the daycare reported there was no aggression he felt uncomfortable keeping him on as it would be an accident waiting to happen.

We have had 2 dog walkers instead, the first was useless and used to come on days not at daycare (when we were working) between Oct and March, rarely showed up, did not listen to any of our training methods.

The second one (the one that quit today) seemed perfect been coming for a month took all our comments on board, did training with him, until that incident yesterday.

Now I know this seems like a lot of back and forth and obviously not what we intended but we couldn't leave him home so had to try alternatives.

Biting at clothes is not an aggressive dog and as I have said before should be able to be dealt with by a good dog walker and will in no way at all affect insurance. Just put a muzzle on it!

But it didn't just bite at clothes - it bit the dog walker. It might be unintentional but bites can be nasty things and can shake your confidence. I'm not sure I'd want to sit alone in a house with a dog that's bitten me if I could earn better money elsewhere.

And I know that probably makes me sound like I'm just in it for the money, but at the end of the day walkers have bills to pay too - why would you pick the dog that pays £10 an hour (that may bite you) over a group walk with 3-4 dogs that could easily net you £40 in the same time period?

And "put a muzzle on it" only works if the dog in question is muzzle trained and is comfortable enough around the walker to allow him/her to muzzle him.

I just want to add I do not blame the dog Walker at all.

We are going to work on his behaviour and keep doing so as we have been.

I just really don't know what to do with him when we're at work.

Mondays 9-6
Tuesdays 10-4
Fridays 10-4
Saturdays 9-6

The Tuesdays wont be an issue come September but it's just far to long to leave him in his crate. I'm not exaggerating when I say there's really no more suitable walkers near me, or ones with Availability anyhow.

You are missing my whole point cupsofcoffee an experienced dog sitter would not have let the situation from biting at clothes to have reached the biting of her stage.

Yes exactly my point the average untrained dog walker will take the easy options.

And obviously the dog would be muzzled trained!

My main point I am making is that this dog is not an aggressive dog. It is a dog with special needs and the OP has been unlucky in not matching up with a good dog walker. The dog is getting classed as aggressive etc when the issues are very common especially for a bully breed who does have a different play style to other dogs.

If OP were to find an experienced qualified dog walker the story would be very different.

I don't know if this would help but a friend of mine was in a similar situation to you. She put the dog on a 100% head to tail carnivore diet and the difference in the reactivity, concentration, ability to relax in the dog was staggering! After two weeks the dog (bitch actually) gave off a totally different vibe. She had been in four differnent homes in three years and had a really frenetic thing going on. Off the carbs and suddenly able to concentrate on training and just more chill generally. It might be worth a try. It can't just be muscle meat though, head to tail so tongue, liver, kidneys, tripes, fat, the lot.

Much happier dog.

You are missing my whole point cupsofcoffee an experienced dog sitter would not have let the situation from biting at clothes to have reached the biting of her stage.

Yes, I do agree with this.

the average untrained dog walker will take the easy options.

Or maybe she can't afford to take on difficult solo customers?

There isn't much money in solo walks and one of the (often few) advantages of being self-employed is that you can pick and choose your clients. The dog walker has to make money and is under no obligation to continue working with OP's dog if she's uncomfortable - or even if she just doesn't want to anymore.

And you're right, the dog may not be aggressive but a dog doesn't need to be aggressive for a walker (or daycare) to not want to take them.

At the end of the day they're under no obligation to take on OP's dog, whether they're experienced and qualified or not.

@TheBodyPiercer

I just want to add I do not blame the dog Walker at all.

We are going to work on his behaviour and keep doing so as we have been.

I just really don't know what to do with him when we're at work.

Mondays 9-6
Tuesdays 10-4
Fridays 10-4
Saturdays 9-6

The Tuesdays wont be an issue come September but it's just far to long to leave him in his crate. I'm not exaggerating when I say there's really no more suitable walkers near me, or ones with Availability anyhow.

Maybe you have a dog that isn't suited to your circumstances?

That doesn't mean you're a bad owner or you have a bad dog, but separation anxiety is a real bugger to deal with and if you have to work long hours, maybe this dog isn't for you if he can't be left in daycare or with a walker?

They don't suit every dog.

How about kennels? They usually have a day rate. He'll be in the kennel most of the day but at least let out for wees and walks.
They walk dogs singly usually in kennels too.

Or maybe she can't afford to take on difficult solo customers?

To add to this comment, very few people (experienced or not) will take on a difficult, low-paying job over an easier, high paying one and I don't think it's fair to judge the walker for not wanting to do it anymore.

If I have two options - 1 to make £10 an hour sitting with a difficult dog, or £40 an hour walking four easy-going, friendly dogs I'd always go with the latter. That doesn't make me untrained or lazy or inexperienced - it's just a matter of finances lol.

Again, I completely understand the dog walker saying no. I'm self employed myself and would much rather take on an easy client than a difficult one!

Even if he didn't have some separation anxiety I still couldn't leave him for those hours without bathroom breaks.

I have looked at kennels on recommendation of our trainee but unfortunately couldn't find one who would be willing to have him just for the day.

I understand our circumstances are not ideal and if I knew of someone who doesn't work, would treat him well & would continue his training I would make that decision but I'm reluctant to give him to a rescue (if they should have him) as I can just see him being rehomed then returned and he has already had enough of that.

I'm considering buying a kennel and run so he at least has more freedom whilst we work on his issues but I've never had an outdoor dog so no experience there and I'm not sure how he would cope.

Again, I completely understand the dog walker saying no. I'm self employed myself and would much rather take on an easy client than a difficult one!

Sorry OP, I went off on a tangent there - none of that was really aimed at you or your situation, it was just a general rant

Instead of sitting with him, could you find someone who could just come in and let him out to the toilet, at least as a short-term measure?

@cupsofcoffee

Again, I completely understand the dog walker saying no. I'm self employed myself and would much rather take on an easy client than a difficult one!

Sorry OP, I went off on a tangent there - none of that was really aimed at you or your situation, it was just a general rant

Instead of sitting with him, could you find someone who could just come in and let him out to the toilet, at least as a short-term measure?

Haha it's fine.

For a few weeks at least we should be able to rely on my parents, partners parents popping in.

Long term the only solutions I see are;
Outdoor kennel and run
I quit work
Rehome him

Obviously none of those are something I want. I've spent the past 6 months contacting dog walkers, sitters, kennels, reading books, watching videos, forums etc and we do all the right things but then something like this happens and I'm back at square one again.

I know people who have used outside dog kennels. You can get really large ones with outside and inside areas and can heat and insulate the inside parts.

The downside is really about whether he will be disturbed by outside noises and bark and disturb the neighbours.

At least that buys you a few weeks of breathing space :)

What happens if he's not in his crate?

@QuentinBunbury

What happens if he's not in his crate?

He stays awake the entire time we're gone, no interest in kongs etc like when in his crate. We've been leaving him short periods in the hallway again recently to try and get him used to not being in the crate but he is definitely much more settled in there.

I assume you have tried and failed to find other very large dogs for him to play with regularly to teach him better manners?

I live somewhere with very many dog walkers (and heaps of dogs) and they will certainly mix and match who they walk to find a good fit.

Another friend found a trainer who basically strategically had you bring your dog to quite a large group walk. Their dog end up with a few nicks but much improved manners - again a huge bouncy rescue that didn't listen/got carried away.

@RandomMess

I assume you have tried and failed to find other very large dogs for him to play with regularly to teach him better manners?

I live somewhere with very many dog walkers (and heaps of dogs) and they will certainly mix and match who they walk to find a good fit.

Another friend found a trainer who basically strategically had you bring your dog to quite a large group walk. Their dog end up with a few nicks but much improved manners - again a huge bouncy rescue that didn't listen/got carried away.

Yes unfortunately the other dogs we know are either to old, small or timid themselves, or just as excited as he is!

Our behaviourist does have a very well mannered rottweiler who we are hoping to utilise to teach him some manners.

I don't know much about his history but can assume he was taken to young from his mom/littermates and then lacked any correct socialisation in those first 5 months.

We have walked him with other dogs and 90% of the time he just carries on about his walk, but then it's like a flip switches and he remembers they're there and must jump all over them.

We have had semi successful walks with our friends 2 chihuahua, and a very old and angry beagle. But then a lab we walked with was very unsuccessful!

We stopped attempting these walks at the advise of our trainer until we could ensure he remains calm at a distance.

I would be seeking out play mates via Facebook - obviously only as an initial contact and only proceeding being 100% homes and upfront.

It is more likely to be friends of friends of friends that have some "solid" dogs.

He probably needs a good run in the morning to wear him out for the day. Does he get off lead time every morning ?

@Skyla2005

He probably needs a good run in the morning to wear him out for the day. Does he get off lead time every morning ?

He's on a long line as a safety measure due to his reactivity

So she was standing in the garden with him, and he just starts biting her clothes and biting her? Must have been terrifying for the poor woman with such a large breed. My bil had a very large dog that would do similar. One day it got a bit too playful and wouldn't calm down. A visitor to the house ended up with a nasty bite so they rehomed it. In the next home it bit a child and was rehomed again. God knows where it is now and how many more times it's bitten.