Border collie owners

[UnconsideredTrifles]

We've been given the chance to maybe get a border collie puppy. The sellers are the owners of both parent dogs; I've met both. We met the owners by chance and don't know them at all really, but the dogs were both very chilled and well-behaved around my 3 year old. I got the impression this was the mum's first puppies.

We do want a dog, and with young children a rescue is not currently an option (none of our local ones will consider families with young children, which makes sense to me). We had planned on looking for a breeder in the near future.

I am self-employed and work from home, so there's always someone about. We have a big, safe garden and live rurally; I run every day.

I've done a fair bit of research - I know a collie will need a ton of exercise and will probably outsmart me - but I'd really value insight from people who have breed experience to see whether this is a brilliant opportunity or a terrible idea.

Thank you!

I would say if you are asking, it's a bad idea. I have 2 border collies and they are brilliant but they can be v high maintenance and you need to be really careful to socialise them properly as pups. I would say with a young child you will really struggle, especially if you come against any issues. Also they don't just need exercise they need a job to do or they will find one and turn in to neurotic dogs. One of mine would be fine with small children, the other wouldn't and they are father and son. You just don't know in advance. They can be very sensitive to noise/people running around/strangers etc.

Thank you, that's really helpful - especially given the family relationship. I was wondering how much temperament was inherited! The parents aren't working dogs, and seemed very calm, but I wouldn't want an unhappy dog. I would be interested in doing dog agility work with it, but perhaps that would not be enough for a collie?

I have 6 collies. They are amazing dogs who deserve the best life. They need time, attention, some exercise but lots of brain work.

They can have their issues, noise phobias, or nervous,can be aloof to other dogs, can herd your children.

They may not want to be in the park with other dogs and families some might a lot will not.

As a first dog with young children it is not a great mix. Collies can run rings around their owners given half a change.

Taking a collie for a run with you everyday will not really touch the sides on what they will need.

If you dont give them what they want they do tend to go self employed and find their own things to do which may or may not fit in with your wishes.

I foster a lot of collies and often they come from homes where people were inexperienced and could not offer them what they needed.

Dont assume a collie will like agility. Loads of agility people will have several collies who can not do agility for many reasons.

Many collies find agility over stimulating and it can push them over threshold. Some love it but you take your chances and it is not quaranteed.

Very. Hard. Work.

My friends had collies growing up. They lived on a farm and were working dogs, the sort that ran alongside the tractor all day every day. They were still too much in the evening!

I have a collie cross but extremely collie biased in nature - rescued from collie rescue centre at 12 weeks old. Bit nervy snd not a fan of other dogs. Youngest child was 4 when I adopted her. Kids have all been taught not treat her like a toy, respect her space. Crate training a must, very intense and consistent training as a puppy up to around 2, and intelligent exercise, which has eased up a bit now that she's a bit older.

She's best as a sole dog as she gets annoyed if other dogs bother her when she's ball chasing or doing her own thing but she is an absolutely cherished and adored member of the family who lives to please and follows me like a shadow. 10 this year.

I knew I would find the experts on here! It looks like it might not be a great fit - which is such a shame, as I do love collies, and the timing/background situation seemed pretty good.

Any recommendations on a good breed with young children? I've got a fair bit of dog-walking/dog-sitting experience but obviously that's nothing like owning one; DH grew up with a farm dog but it was very much a working dog, not a pet.

We have 2 collie crosses. Both 3/4 collie, so very much the dominant breed. They are both brilliant, but do need a lot of attention, exercise, stimulation etc. The oldest is a year and has amazing recall and is really good out and about, we could let him run around the woods all day and he would be happy. The youngest is just over 4 months. Very active but then will just fall asleep. They are adorable but do take up a lot of time. Totally worth it when I come home from work and they are so excited to see me. Me and dh work different hours so they are rarely on their own. They love company as a result.

I grew up with border collies. I loved them, and they were a huge part of my childhood. But my parents were very experienced dog owners. I don't think I'd recommend a border for a first time dog owner. They have various issues ... And can be neurotic and anxious. The big friend of my childhood was only really, truly, happy when the whole family was in one place, where he could see them.

Friend have always had border collies & young children -- worked for them. Not farmers but yes large garden.

@RedRosie

I grew up with border collies. I loved them, and they were a huge part of my childhood. But my parents were very experienced dog owners. I don't think I'd recommend a border for a first time dog owner. They have various issues ... And can be neurotic and anxious. The big friend of my childhood was only really, truly, happy when the whole family was in one place, where he could see them.

That's what my girl is like. Lockdown was her paradise!

@RedRosie my brother has a lurcher like that - he gets really upset if anyone falls behind on a walk, keeps running back to try to get everyone to stay together!

I walk several collies.

Fantastic dogs but they're not a breed I would ever pick for myself. I personally find them quite intense

Oops didn't meant to press send

I'll try again

I walk several collies.

Fantastic dogs but they're not a breed I would ever pick for myself. I personally find them quite intense - if they want to play fetch (for example) and you have a ball, they will fixate on it constantly.

They're very clever and imo not brilliant with other dogs unless they've had lots of very early, careful socialisation - they tend to do best mixing with their own breed.

They need a lot of exercise and lots of mental stimulation too - walks for us involve swimming (much more tiring than walking/running), a bit of fetch and asking them to find the ball in long grass.

I wouldn't recommend them for a first time owner tbh.

We are on our second collie, this one a border cross with huntaway. He's 6 months old and we have 2 year old dd. My advice is more around your ability and experience in training a puppy as this is critical. Puppy's can only be exercised for used short amounts for the first year (5 mins walk for every month age, twice a day) to protect their growing limbs so it would be a while before it's running with you. You need to teach commands, house rules, toilet training, barking, nipping and herding ie when to not do it. Not all collies have a strong instinct to do it but many do.

You also need to teach children the same, how to play with pup, not to tease, don't grab the dog, go unexpected behind the dog etc until everyone is comfortable.

I think collies are a fab breed and not sure I would have anything else. We're just getting ours off the lead now, recall is good. We play hide and seek games in the garden with toys etc and have food games too toys he head to work out how to get the food from. They are so smart.

So for me whilst the breed is important to fit with your lifestyle, if a collie is your preference then find out what training classes might exist, agility sessions but think hard on how you would get through that first year particularly. There are loads of good books too you could read up on first.

I would also though recommend a collie cross with lab (now called a Borador) where the labs relaxed approach tends to come through but they are smaller in size and smarter than full labs so great to train. Really great combination for an active family lifestyle.

Thank you @YoBeaches, that's useful advice. I did (vaguely) know that younger dogs needed a gentler introduction to exercise - I definitely wouldn't be looking for a running partner straight away!

We used to live in a very doggy area, so the children at least are well-trained in how to deal with dogs (their recall is excellent and they never approach a dog without an invitation!)

I'd consider a Labrador or lab cross.
Intelligence but more chilled than a collie

Very Friendly to people and other dogs.

My lab cross is under a year but he is happy to be left for an afternoon. Rarely hassles me
Never chews stuff he shouldn't.

Recall still A Bit off but we are working on it.

Collie owner here. I think they’re wonderful dogs, but not without their quirks. I don’t agree with the ‘need hours and hours of walking’ because I think it can make them hyper charged athletes, a decent walk and a job to do to stimulate the brain is much better. Agility can send them quite mad, the nicer more chilled collies I know are actually the farm workers, or the obedience/working trials dogs.
Mine are completely sociable with other dogs and people, we are however an experienced home and did devote a lot of time to very careful, positive socialising.
Labs seem to always be recommended on here as family pets, I think they can be massive arseholes as pups and young dogs actually, the breeding in of show to the working lines hasn’t done them any favours and I meet more nervy labs than steady confident ones these days.

See my threads for the issues I have had with my collie x kelpie, and also the very good advice I had in response. Listen to @PollyRoulson in particular. We are now coming out the other side of a very difficult first year with our boy. We had to spend a lot of time and money to get to where we are today (none of it was his fault; we weren’t meeting his needs).

I think if you have children I would not go for such an intense breed, as you could run into real problems. The more we treat ours as a ‘working’ dog (I.e. he has a safe gated space to be in and when he is out we are doing something with him, not just letting him have the run of the house) the happier he is. I am not sure that meets a ‘family friendly’ brief.

Ours is doing a scent work course which wipes him out, but he is a handful. Not at all good in traffic, very strong, recall still a work in progress, and quite reactive. Wants to chase cars, joggers, etc. We are moving more rurally soon and a big part of that is to get away from noise. At the moment we can’t let him in the garden on his own as he reacts to the dog next door. We had issues with him herding and biting in the house - now resolved, but I would not want the risk of that with young children.

Having said that our boy has such personality and is absolutely lovely in the home now. But we don’t have children, have been home for the last eighteen months and have found a brilliant behaviourist to work with us. But is has been a LOT.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

YY @Flamerouge my in laws have collies that sleep outside (in a gorgeous heated cabin type thing, not out on the ground) which I must admit I was incredibly judgy about until I met them. They are much happier with boundaries and their own space, they're not the kind of dogs who will lie on your feet and sleep at night. Not all collies, obvs, but these two are very happy in a 'working dog lite' set up.

@HoldontoOneMoreDay love the idea of ‘working dog lite’! But it’s totally true. I hated the idea of not letting him have free run of the house initially, but it was essential to have really strong leadership and boundaries with ours and the more that happens, the happier he is.

Labs seem to always be recommended on here as family pets, I think they can be massive arseholes as pups and young dogs actually, the breeding in of show to the working lines hasn’t done them any favours and I meet more nervy labs than steady confident ones these days

I totally agree with this as well and I don't think young labradors are particularly calm or gentle dogs.

As a dog walker I meet dogs of all breeds and the only calm labs I've ever met have been senior dogs (so aged 10+) or extremely overweight. Many also have bad hips and joints due to overbreeding (and poor diet).

Read the Book "Meet Your Dog" by Kim Brophy

This clearly explains what living with dog breeds will be like . It shoud be essential reading for anyone who is thinking of which dog to get.

Meet Your Dog

A must for anyone who wants to know which dog will suit their lifestyle.

I've recently lost my collie bitch, at nearly 16 years old, she wasn't your typical high energy collie. She was happy to just go on a walk where she could sniff around and ignore other dogs! She could be dog aggressive if dogs did not respect her swift hello and then leave her alone.
She did not like alot of attention, wouldn't crave cuddles nor would she play fetch if there was another dog around.
Her job was rodent control and she was fab at this!

We have 2 other working bred collies at the yard and she was stand there and watch them run around in circles, thinking they were mad for using so much exercise!
Oh yes, she had to do everything in a circle!

She wasn't good with strangers, or some of the family in her bed space and would nip if you got in her face.

I wouldn't trust her with kids as she liked everyone in a certain place and would herd them to where she feels they should be or even nip them to get their attention.

We are due a baby ourselves and I have decided against having another collie until we have a much older child, 6 years plus when the are able to understand the dog's body language.

We have a lab and having seen how good labs are with children climbing all over them, pulling ears and rough cuddles, I would totally recommend the breed. However, it must be noted that too much of rough play with lead any dog to bite to tell the child to sod off!

If this is your first dog, I would suggest not getting a full working lab, we have our first full working lab and she is a stark difference to our show x working lab.
Working lab needs a lot more mental simulation and walks, I do work her as well and even after hours out walking through rough terrine (I walk around 8 - 12 miles so god knows how far she walks/runs) and she is not tired!

Whatever breed you chose, just been aware that your child will not have dog sense, which could led to issues for the dog. Please make sure that your dog has somewhere to go where the child does not.

Good luck!

Thank you everyone! So much to think about, and I am determined to get it right.

Sadly, we did briefly have a lab when I was a child - she was a rescue pup, and totally unsuited to our inexperienced family, so I've seen how bad it can be. She was rehomed with a family friend who had experience and a calm older dog to help her, but I'm not sure she ever fully calmed down!