Drop it/leave it/what's this?

[Aria20]

What methods do you use? I want to establish a cue for drop it/leave it. So far I've done toy exchanges for slippers she likes to run off with and I say "drop it" and reward by exchange with the alternative toy or a treat and praise.

However, this doesn't always work for things she shouldn't get eg rubbish or potentially poisonous flowers on walks etc so I've had to resort to distraction with "what's this?" and a treat to get her away from it. I don't necessarily want her to become too reliant on a treat to drop/leave though as I've noticed the crafty pup deliberately taking things she shouldn't while looking at me in order to get a treat!!!

We didn't teach a 'leave it/drop it' cue (I may yet live to regret this). Our trainer's method is to teach the dog to leave everything unless it's their toy/food or unless you give them permission to pick it up. We've worked hard on impulse control training from an early stage and it seems to be working well.

I don't know what age your pup is but managing the environment is really important too. I know that's not possible on walks but e.g. in the house put slippers etc out of her reach without fail. This means she won't get into the habit of stealing them. If there's nothing lying about for her to take, she can't start taking things to manipulate you into treats.

I've noticed the crafty pup deliberately taking things she shouldn't while looking at me in order to get a treat!!!
Mine does this. He’ll bring safe but ‘forbidden’ items to play with right in front of me. A sock for example. But as soon as he realises I’m ignoring it he’ll leave it alone and go about whatever he was doing before. (Then I secretly pick it up.) He’s fallen asleep on a sock waiting for me to ‘notice’ more times than I can count.

I still would rather reward too much rather than not enough: His ‘drop it’ is so good that he even spat a load of chocolate out the other day. I was so grateful he did!

It doesn’t have to be a treat you give as a reward though. A successful ‘leave it’ out on a walk could also mean a reward of a lovely big fuss and “good boy/girl” or a quick play with a squeaker/tug/ball. (Just to distinguish I use ‘leave it’ if he’s approaching something and ‘drop it’ if it’s already in his mouth.)

@YelloYelloYello  at the socks yes our pup ran into my sons room and grabbed a stray sock and ran proudly to show me what she'd stolen! I just ignored as was only a sock. I will continue to work on it and as you say distinguish between drop if she has it and leave it if she's approaching it!

@ashmts re the slippers, they are stolen from our feet by persistent nibbling!! She's only 15 weeks at mo. We have tried long dangling toys etc but she's obsessed with slippers!!

@ashmts what type of impulse control training have you done, we definitely need to be doing this!

My dogs respond well to the negative "ahn" sound. I don't know how else to describe it but it makes them look at me and then if need be I follow up with a command.

@dudsville she sometimes stops with the ahhahh sound but not reliably!

@ashmts I wonder if the impulse control training is more successful with some breeds over others. If a lab or a beagle found an abandoned picnic while out on a walk I imagine it would be harder for them to avoid it then say a well trained collie.

@Aria20 15 weeks is little but you can still implement things to stop them. When they start at your feet, remove yourself, don't let them be persistent. We got a room divider I could step over. Wear boot style slippers so she can't pull them off. Tbh I wore Ugg boots cos the teeth were so sharp, but it was November. Might not be so nice now! Why is she allowed into your son's room? I read somewhere (might have been Easy Peasy Puppy Squeezy?) that the more you restrict your puppy's freedom in the early days, the more freedom you can give them for the rest of their life. It certainly seems to be playing out that way for us, we had room dividers, stair gates, closed doors etc. She was only allowed in the living room and kitchen in the early days but now she can be trusted anywhere.

Re impulse control, it was an exercise given by our trainer. I really recommend finding a trainer whose methods you like and connect with. We started by holding a treat over her head. If she sat nice, she got the treat. Then you progress to placing the treat on your knee while you sit on the floor. Again, if she doesn't grab it, she gets a treat. Then you just progress through levels of difficulty, moving it gradually closer and for longer periods of time. I can now place a treat on her paw, wait for eye contact, then reward.

@YelloYelloYello I asked the trainer this but she was adamant any dog can learn it. Absolutely it's harder for some than others, I have a cocker spaniel and in the first class she was absolutely rubbish at this. All the other dogs in the class picked it up faster than her. But with practice she cracked it, so actually I now believe the trainer that it's possible. Mine used to be a nightmare for swallowing stones etc, now she walks past discarded sandwiches without picking them up. The trainer is based in London and she said if she said 'leave it' every time her dogs approached something, she'd never stop saying it cos there's so much rubbish lying about.

@ashmts that's great thanks for those ideas for impulse control, going to start that tonight! Mine is a cocker too and she was easy to train sit, down etc but these more impulsive things have been harder so I'll try your suggestions. She also loves little stones! She normally is only in kitchen and front room, but my oldest son's bedroom is on the ground floor too and my youngest left front room door open and pup saw an opportunity for mischief! She is not destructive or having accidents in the house luckily so it's not a major issue if she explores.

@Aria20 No worries, just be careful not to expect too much too soon. At 15 weeks mine was still a bit of a menace. If she'll snap for treats or anything make sure you do some work on taking treats gently from your hand before you start dangling them over her head. Are you on the Puppy Survival thread on here? I got loads of tips and support on there when mine was little.

@ashmts no I'm not on it, might join the June one but it's so many pages it's hard to keep up! She is very gentle at taking treats thankfully! To be honest she's generally really good, it's just occasional digging in the garden which we've managed by distraction and blocking certain areas and wanting to be able to reliably get her to drop/leave stuff so that if she ever got something dangerous on a walk I'd be able to get her to drop/leave without a drama or chase situation lol!

When we are playing tug I taught my dog 'mine' and she will drop the thing we are both holding.
I'm trying to get her to 'leave it' when out on a walk but more often it's a 'drop it' to get a treat which is not ideal as she still picks up the things we don't want her to as I don't always see them, and she gets rewarded for dropping it. I use lots of high value treats currently part of a burger from a bbq, quite often tiny bits of cheese.

I posted this yesterday should get commission. As a trainer for many years I used to use the swop method worked pretty well with many dogs. You had to make sure the swap item was higher value which or some dogs was a tricky one.

However You can not beat the Chirag Patel method of teaching drop. It is sooooo simple (that owners question if it will work - it will)

There is no stress or frustration for the dog as they do not initially have to give or swop anything. If done regularly and not rushed it is fool proof.

Works for determined terriers and Staffis

I introduce this in week one of puppy classes by the end of the course all puppies are always successful with this (even the ones whose owners only practice in class)

I don't teach "drop" as it's too easy for the dog to re-grab the forbidden item. I work on the basis that if they have it then they should give it to me. I do obedience training, including retrieving, so the "come" command is steady. I teach "to me" as in "give it to me". I also try to teach a steady and reliable "leave it".

I always praise if they have an item and get them to hand it over, ״good dog, clever boy, to me" never chastise or sound worried!

On a day to day basis I think "leave it" is one of the more useful commands to get steady. It can be used wrt objects, other dogs, people. If you are consistent using it wrt forbidden things then the dogs do learn they are not to be touched - so mine won't touch human food on a plate, even if it's within reach. Not that I'd risk leaving the room with the plate on the floor 🤣

Re socks- just a word of caution, a lovely working cocker at my training class died last year after eating a sock that caused a blockage. By the time it was diagnosed the damage was too severe to save him. The owner hadn't missed the sock 😔.

@PollyRoulson I started watching thinking how can that help, and then, probably after the dog had worked it out I realised Wow! What a simple way to train them.
Do you have any tips on how to stop barking, ie at delivery vans or neighbours just closing their car doors?

@PollyRoulson thank you for that link very useful will start working on it!
Which company did you used to do training with, was it a national one or local? We are with "puppy school" and haven't covered this in week 3 and to be honest so far haven't found our trainer particularly great... which is a shame considering the cost for 6 weeks.

we have a cocker - he carries things around in his mouth, it's what they love doing. So in the house, he tidies up with us. When we do the recycling, he carries part of the cardboard and puts it in the bin. He will also carry washing upstairs in his mouth (lovely I know, we let him do the socks!). In this way, he's been trained not to swallow as he has to carry and drop (much like he would do in the field) and he loves it.

he waits to be told to eat and he has specific walks where he is allowed to wander around and sniff. Other walks he has to concentrate and focus but this is working training rather than pet training but it does come in useful.

they are very clever dogs! With your slippers, if she isn't chewing them, I would reward her for bringing them to you and dropping them at your feet without being chewed. This gets easier as they get older and want to chew less but cockers absolutely love a job so if she feels she's being useful to you, you might find she's more compliant!

@TheFunBus what do you do on the walks your cocker has to concentrate and focus? Are they lead walks? I have a cocker spaniel too. She is 9 years old and is good for the most part, just a devil for plastic bottle tops and food!

[quote longtompot]@PollyRoulson I started watching thinking how can that help, and then, probably after the dog had worked it out I realised Wow! What a simple way to train them.
Do you have any tips on how to stop barking, ie at delivery vans or neighbours just closing their car doors?[/quote]
Simple one for car doors too.

Keep treats in your pockets at all time (yep this is the worst bit!)

Give treats every single time your dog hears the doors close. Again so simple but you do have to do it every time.

It does not matter if the dog is barking just hear the door shut and treats appear.

What will happen is the dog will hear the doors shutting and come to you for the treats. Barking will stop.

It is so simple it is like magic.

When your dog has "got it" which should not be too long at all do carry on giving treats to reinforce it for a while and then at random door shutting moments.

[quote Aria20]@PollyRoulson thank you for that link very useful will start working on it!
Which company did you used to do training with, was it a national one or local? We are with "puppy school" and haven't covered this in week 3 and to be honest so far haven't found our trainer particularly great... which is a shame considering the cost for 6 weeks.[/quote]
I haven't worked for any company on public dog training. I am self employed but a member of many dog training and behaviourist organisations.

I have worked in organisations on specialised dog training eg assistance dogs and scent detection dogs.

Wow you guys have some really great tips for training. It’s so useful to read these ideas. Ashmts with impulse control I do these things to an extent but not as good as what you have done I think. If I say leave she will leave something. I can throw kibble scattered onto the floor and say leave and she will leave if she know she will get a little bit of ham for instance. But I think I need to do it more as an instinctive thing where I don’t even need to say leave and she auto my checks in with me. Does your trainer do online sessions do you know? Could you pm me their details?

@pollyroulson I was just thinking about the treating when car doors slam. We aren’t having this issue (yet anyway) but the only thing which is initiating some barking is if she hears neighbours dogs bark (often in distance various different dogs) it happens 2 or 3 times a day. Fires her up and I guess she barks back. Which seem entirely natural I suppose but I would rather it wasn’t a habit that starts. Do you think I could treat when we hear a dog bark? Do you think that would work ?

Yep treat whenever the trigger occurs so if dog barking sets your dog barking treat treat treat. It will work if you are consistent and the treats are high value for your dog.

Thanks think this is worth a go for us

I am so glad of mumsnet and your advice polly is so great. I have spent a fortune on various dog trainers but I think the advice I get here on mumsnet has been the most valuable to me by far.