Told by the farmer to keep dog on a lead?

[mudstuck]

I was walking my dog through a field and the farmer came up on his tractor and complained that he had seen my dog off the lead. There are no sheep or livestock around, and I would always always put her on a lead if I there was any chance of encountering any livestock.I did raise the fact that the field was empty with him and he said there are young pheasants going about... I apologised and agreed to keep her on a lead in future. However on reflection I am wondering if he is in the right to ask that of us? My dog doesn't have a very high prey drive at all and lives happily with three house cats. I don't allow her to chase wildlife although her recall, even though it's good, is not 100% and we have had the very occasional chase of a squirrel or deer. She probably would chase a pheasant if she saw one running away but she would never catch it. What do you think? Like I said I am happy to keep her on a lead just for an easy life. I live close to the farmer and don't want the trouble/conflict. Just wondering who is in the right..

Wish I'd never posted on here now. You're all nuts.

Some of us may well be nuts but at least we aren't thick,

www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/dog-walking

It's not just livestock but if they run through a newly sowed field they can cause damage to crops.

[quote mudstuck]@JackieLavertysWeirdVoice
Can the farmer shoot my dog for being off her lead? I know they can shoot a dog if it's worrying their sheep, or livestock but not for simply being off lead with their owner in sight surely? [/quote]
The farmer has the right to shoot your dog. If you care about your dog, keep it on the lead

Dog poo isn't great for livestock either. What is an empty field now....
(And it is a Scottish article)

www.nfus.org.uk/news/news/dog-walkers-urged-to-clean-up-faeces-on-farmland

it's not trespassing where the OP is. She didn't do anything wrong.

Technically she was doing something wrong - she's in Scotland and so she should have her dog on a lead between April and July.

@mudstuck- re reading your OP. Nowhere does it say that the farmer who asked you to put the lead on your dog threatened to shoot it. You asked is he entitled to ask you to put the lead on in a, to your eyes, empty field.

Many people have said yes he is entitled. Quite a number have pointed out that ground nesting birds can't be seen from a gate or, sometimes, until you're almost on top of them. The farmer mentioned that there are pheasants in the field. Some people have shown you the law that says you should keep your dog on a lead during March to July because it's nesting time. It's April. Therefore the dog should be on a lead or in 'close control' - i.e guaranteed to walk to heel and come back when called. You've admitted your dog doesn't always do this - chased a squirrel and a deer. Therefore he or she goes on the lead. You've admitted you didn't know that. The farmer did and asked you put the lead on. You've complied. End of story.

You've had a few people say that the famer is within his or her rights to shoot the dog. But he or she has never said that so why worry? A farmer can shoot a dog for worrying livestock but it's a very grey area, most farmers don't want to and will only resort to it to save their animal.

@IceSwallowCome

This thread hasn't gone how you thought it would has it OP?

No. Should have known better than to ask about dogs on mumsnet but thought I'd be safe in the dog house. Ha!

To conclude I totally accept that the farmer is allowed to ask me to keep her on a lead and I am responsible hence I complied and will continue to do so. I do think it's overkill in an empty field but that is my opinion, I will still do as asked.

What I contest is the dog shooting thing. A farmer cannot shoot your dog unless it is worrying their livestock. Yet there are lots of folk on this thread who seem to think the farmer can shot a dog just for being off lead in an empty field. That is not the law and that is what has been getting my back up.

To conclude I will keep her leashed on all farmland in future even if it's empty. I'm out.

@Planttrees

In Scotland you have a 'right to responsible access' not a 'right to roam'. It is a complete misconception. Please keep your dog on a lead.

As a landowner in Scotland - this this this - Thank you! If I get "Right to Roam quoted at me one more time I may just explode

The young pheasants will almost certainly be being reared for a shoot.

You have already admitted your dogs recall is not 100%.

If you’re dog gets into a pen & kills a lot of young pheasants, even if they die of shock, this is a huge financial cost & very disheartening.

Please keep your dog on the lead.

"No. Should have known better than to ask about dogs on mumsnet but thought I'd be safe in the dog house. Ha!"

By "safe" do you mean "I thought everyone would agree with me rather than quite rightly telling me that I'm out of order"?

Are there different rules for Scotland?

I have lived in a rural village for 30 years. I walk almost daily, as does half or more of the village, with their dogs. (I don't have a dog.)

There are many public footpaths and bridleways crossing farmers fields and also some permissive footpaths (not public.) The paths go round the sides of fields.

The vast majority of dog owners do not have dogs on leads. This sometimes comes up for discussion on the village social media pages and in the parish magazine if walkers are 'bothered' by dogs jumping up or chasing them. My DP was bitten by such a dog and the police had to be involved.

The law here is that dogs should be 'under control' which means they either walk to heel or are on a lead if they are not well trained.

There is no law I know of which says they must be on a lead on farm land but please educate me as it may be useful if dogs continue to run at and jump up at us!

What I contest is the dog shooting thing. A farmer cannot shoot your dog unless it is worrying their livestock. Yet there are lots of folk on this thread who seem to think the farmer can shot a dog just for being off lead in an empty field. That is not the law and that is what has been getting my back up That would be something you have asserted rather than something someone else has said though!

And like many others in the Doghouse, I am a dog owner. A not very good at recall if it can't be bothered dog. Only ever off lead in dog safe spaces, never in someone's field. Mainly because I like my dog and am fully aware that despite never having shown interest in any other animal I can't trust that for a second. And I don't want him shot, or to make a farmer feel he needs to shoot!

And I live in prime hunting, shooting, fishing country!

OP you sound utterly obnoxious and ignorant and I worry for your dog.

Never do anything in a farmer's field that you would not be perfectly happy for him to come and do in your garden / patio / balcony / whatever. The countryside is not your playground and you have no right whatsoever to walk wherever you please in farmland, and certainly not with your dog crapping wherever it likes off the lead. Public rights to roam in Scotland do not extend to land on which crops are growing, and whether you like it or not, even grass is a crop, either as grazing for livestock, or for hay and haylage for cattle, horses, sheep etc. And whilst you might not know what it is that's growing in that field, it will be growing there to produced an income for the landowner; furthermore, if any cereal crops are being grown for human consumption, the relevant accreditations and premiums could be lost if the harvest is contaminated because of your wilful ignorance. So kindly do as asked and keep your dog on a lead.

I think you were a bit bored Op and started this goady thread to liven up your dull day.

Admittedly I don't live in the UK or Scotland, but unless the dog s in your back yard or front yard or an off-leash park, why would you not have your dog leased at all times. 'Fields' (farming lands?) are PRIVATE PROPERTY so you have absolutely no right to be anywhere near the field let alone letting your dog unleashed, through it. Roads, footpaths etc are where you walk dogs. You don't walk on private 'fields' or property without prior permission, and it's not just that it private property, what if a child or cat etc came out and your off leash dog went for the child or the pet etc? And harmed or killed the child or pet. No dog should be off leash unless on your own private property or a dog park. And you should not be any where near anyones fields either. Footpaths and roads exist for that reason.

@LeilaLiesLow

It's nesting season. Dogs need to be on leads.

Outside of nesting season, a dog should be on a lead or under control. However, many dog walkers consider under control to just mean that it'll come back when called, so they allow dogs to run around the fields instead of staying on the footpaths.

@user1493494961

I think you were a bit bored Op and started this goady thread to liven up your dull day.

So do I.

Unless it’s a public footpath you shouldn’t be going on his land anyway, that’s trespass. As regards dogs on lead, then yes dogs should be on a lead, it’s not just cows,sheep and peasants, it’s rabbits , hedgehogs and all other wildlife. Plus it means you know where your dog has done it’s business and can pick up

The first time I met my farm neighbour he said "Good to see your dog is on a lead. Because the farmers here all operate a policy called shoot, shovel and shut up. Stray dogs disappear without a trace."

@CokeDrinker

Maybe check the rules in Scotland (and the slightly different rules for England/Wales) before you post, because most of what you have said just isnt the case here.

However, in this situation, the OP was wrong and the dog needed to be on a lead due to the time of year. In general, it is more considerate and more responsible to keep your dog on a lead when on farmland.

Technically you should keep to the path when waling through fields, dogs off leads don’t tend to stick to the path.

I think some are being a bit harsh, I’m sure a lot of dog owners walk their dogs off lead through empty fields that have a public right of way, around here they do unless there’s signs saying “livestock in field, keep dogs on lead”. I no longer own a dog but when i did I walked them off lead through fields that didn’t have livestock.

Which is why you have to keep it on a lead or risk getting yourself a dead dog.

@LeilaLiesLow

I live rural (England) and have never ever heard this. Farmers have put signs on gates asking dog walkers to put dogs on leads when walking through fields with sheep. These signs are take down when the sheep leave the fields.

Also I would query if pheasants are 'protected' as they are not necessarily livestock unless being bred for shoots.

The comments about 'his land his rules' - he may not own the land. He could be a tenant farmer. Also, footpaths across fields can be public bridleways and footpaths and not owned by a farmer.

The law is that dogs should be kept on leads on open access land March to July to protect ground nesting birds, be they pheasants or curlews.

It's basic manners to keep your dog on a lead on other private land. I don't know how we have got to a point in this country where many people believe it is socially acceptable to let your dog run all over farmland just because the field has a right of way in it.

Leading me nicely on to rights of way, and bridleways, which are still owned by the farmer even if the public have access over them.

Perhaps you are one of the many people who see the words 'public right of way' and assume that means it's council/ public property. It's not.

Tenant farmers often have the land on long leases from large landowners and are mostly allowed to farm it as they wish including choosing who is able to access the land adjacent to public rights of way.

If your dog leaves the right of way I would consider it not to be under your control and I would (and frequently do) approach you and ask that you put it on a lead.

If I see you allowing your dogs to roam free over open access land between March and July I will probably shout at you because it genuinely makes me tearful to think of all the damage and fear being caused being done to ground nesting birds, leverets etc.