It’s been done to death...

[DiddlyWiddly]

But when faced with a dog that won’t piss off, what do you do?

For the third time now I’ve had the same young, boisterous, enormous dog with piss poor recall harass my dog when I’m trying to play ball with her.

I always stay well, well away from other dogs so there is zero need to approach us but alas, it runs miles away from its owner to reach us.

It was constantly blocking my dog from returning to me today and in the end I got so cross I went to leash the bastard and return it to its ineffectual owner but it ran back as soon as I went to clip it.

It’s a big dog and of a strong guarding breed so frankly, although it is clearly a friendly, exuberant adolescent I am nervous about trying to restrain it or discourage it in any way because if it bit me it could do some damage.

I see it’s owner regularly and intend to talk to them the next time I see them and insist they keep their dog away from mine, I imagine that will go well

It's not the responsibility of every other normal dog that just wants to socialise, to keep away from all dogs just incase it's aggressive.

Not all dogs want to socialise - it doesn't make them weird or abnormal.

I remember watching a programme where the owners sent their dog to daycare. They insisted he loved it and was so excited to go. A behaviourist (Victoria Stilwell) went to observe their dog playing and the dogs' body language showed the total opposite.

The poor dog was stressed, panicky and just wanted to shut down - the owners recognised none of it and were adamant their dog just wanted to play and was happy.

Many owners have no idea about dogs body language or behaviour.

It's not the responsibility of every other normal dog that just wants to socialise, to keep away from all dogs just incase it's aggressive.
None of these situations are the responsibility of the dogs!
It's the responsibility of the OWNERS to be responsible and not think that "but I think dogs should socialise" is a get out clause for their own refusal to take responsibility for their own dog and their own conduct.

@lovelylurcher your dog needs to be on a longline until you have cracked this. They could end up hurt otherwise

I couldn't care less if another dog comes up when we're playing ball. In fact I would stop the ball game so the dogs can have a social interaction
Ball is my dog’s favourite thing in the whole entire world..
She’d forego dinner for a game with the ball thrower.
She does not want to socialise.

But as I said before, dogs have well developed communication
That this dog entirely ignored.

they are more than capable of saying go away to another dog
Which my dog did.

If my dog approaches another off lead dog, it's up to the dog to tell my dog to go away if he doesn't want to play. At which time my dog would leave it alone
Which this dog didn’t.
In fact, thinking about it, I can’t ever remembering having a rude, usually adolescent dog run over to us that left us alone after my dog told it clearly it’s interaction isn’t wanted.
Which isn’t surprising because well socialised dogs don’t rush up to strange dogs in the first place.

Dogs need to socalises and I feel alot of this, don't let dogs approach other dogs, comes from antisocial humans projecting onto their dogs
SHE.DOES.NOT.WANT.TO.SOCIALISE
Why is this such a bizarre concept?!
She is not a social dog.

@BounceyBumblebee

I couldn't care less if another dog comes up when we're playing ball. In fact I would stop the ball game so the dogs can have a social interaction.

I'm sorry but if you're dog is aggressive, then it's your responsibility to put it on a lead if another dog is around. It's not the responsibility of every other normal dog that just wants to socialise, to keep away from all dogs just incase it's aggressive. You chose to have an aggressive dog you alter your behaviour not expect the world to alter to accommodate you.

But as I said before, dogs have well developed communication, they are more than capable of saying go away to another dog. If my dog approaches another off lead dog, it's up to the dog to tell my dog to go away if he doesn't want to play. At which time my dog would leave it alone.

Dogs need to socalises and I feel alot of this, don't let dogs approach other dogs, comes from antisocial humans projecting onto their dogs.

I think as long as you know your dog has a good understanding of dog behaviour and will back away when growled or snapped at it’s fairly safe to let your dog approach others (it would still be more polite to check with the other owner especially if dog is on a lead but no harm done if your dog recalls to you or backs away). However, if you have a dog that LOVES playing with any dog and doesn’t understand that others may not want to play/can’t read body language/won’t respect a growl/snap and back off then you need to be really careful about letting your dog off lead around others. Just because this behaviour is “friendly” and increasingly common (lots of badly trained over excited pups around atm) doesn’t make it “normal”behaviour. It should be viewed as just as much of a problem behaviour as aggression and there should be careful training and management and proper socialisation. Not all dogs need or want to socialise with others. This isn’t as natural as people think, especially for some breeds that have been bred to be wary of unknown dogs. Packs of feral dogs and wolves tend to ignore or fight other packs and adults will only play with known individuals after cautious introductions. I think many dogs have been around humans more than dogs so have a poor understanding of their species natural behaviour and if their only experience of other dogs is playing they will assume that any dog wants to play and this causes problems when they run into old, in pain or nervous/aggressive dogs. It’s fine to let your dog play with others but it’s the owners responsibility to check that both dogs will benefit from the interaction as sometimes dogs are not able to decide this for themselves. I’m always surprised how many “friendly” dogs charge up to on lead aggressive or clearly arthritic old dogs or dogs much much smaller than them and attempt to play rough ignoring growls and snaps. And the owners think this is perfectly fine and normal behaviour? It is threatening and if the threatened dogs body language warnings are ignored the perfectly natural next step is for them to bite.

I'm sorry but if you're dog is aggressive, then it's your responsibility to put it on a lead if another dog is around. It's not the responsibility of every other normal dog that just wants to socialise, to keep away from all dogs just incase it's aggressive. You chose to have an aggressive dog you alter your behaviour not expect the world to alter to accommodate you

But in this case putting the dog on a lead wouldn't help as it wouldn't stop the bouncy bad mannered dog from approaching. Her dog wound likely be even more unhappy with the situation when restricted by the lead. Even very friendly dogs can become reactive when on lead

@Floralnomad

I would say that a good rule is if a dog is playing fetch with its owner on its own it should be treated the same as an on lead dog and others should keep their dogs away . *@savvy7* , no you are a bad owner with a nice dog as it’s never the dogs fault .

I have a great dog. I've had him as a pup and invested a lot in his training and groundwork when he was small. He is well mannered and well socialised. He's very calm and kind to other dogs and all animals. He is an absolute pleasure to have and is much admired for his temperament. So frankly my dear I don't give a damn for your opinion.

“If my dog approaches another off lead dog, it's up to the dog to tell my dog to go away if he doesn't want to play. At which time my dog would leave it alone.”

Yours may well do, others don’t... which is why it’s an issue.

Though, if your dog needs to be told by another dog after it’s already approached it to go away... your dog isn’t actually as good at communicating as you seem to think it is.

I don't think dogs necessarily want to 'socialise'. It's their owners that want them to.

“You chose to have an aggressive dog”

And that’s a hell of an assumption...

Dogs develop issues for various reasons, a huge cause of it is actually the so called friendly dogs pestering them repeatedly.

You chose to have an aggressive dog you alter your behaviour not expect the world to alter to accommodate you.*

You dont always choose to have an aggressive dog. Many dogs are well socialised and show no aggression for years and only become aggressive after being attacked and it’s very hard to rebuild their trust in dogs-and they have good reason to be wary as every time they are approached by a strange dog there is a risk of attack. So people are often stuck trying to manage an aggressive dog. Rude dogs approaching all the time makes it very difficult and impractical to desensitise nervous dogs.

I agree that most of the responsibility lies with the aggressive dog owner to manage the aggression. They should keep the dog on a lead if there are other dogs around (I wouldn’t count the other side of a huge field as around-it’s not normal to run across a huge field to approach someone). They should also muzzle the dog if a bite is likely and warn other owners not to let their dogs approach/ask them to recall, and try to walk in quiet areas.
That’s all they can really do, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect/wish that owners of off lead dogs have enough control of their dog and respect for animals/the public to be able to recall their dog when asked.
But there will always be inconsiderate owners lacking in common sense around, and their dogs are the ones at risk of injury if they harass other dogs so they should really have their dog under control for its own safety even if they don’t care about respecting other people/dogs wishes. I wouldn’t rely on every owner of an aggressive dog being diligent enough to use a muzzle-many think keeping the dog on a lead is enough to protect others.

I have a great dog. I've had him as a pup and invested a lot in his training and groundwork when he was small. He is well mannered and well socialised. He's very calm and kind to other dogs and all animals. He is an absolute pleasure to have and is much admired for his temperament. “

Sounds great. Not at all relevant to the issue of less well mannered dogs approaching dogs and not backing off when told which is not “kind” or appropriate behaviour. I don’t see how the fact that you have a well behaved dog means that all owners of nervous/aggressive dogs should put up with rude dogs approaching and harassing them.

If you can call your dog away from others and it knows not to approach dogs displaying aggressive body language then I doubt anyone would object to you having your dog off lead and letting it play with friendly dogs. This is totally different to an out of control dog with no understanding of body language approaching a dog a long distance away when neither dog or owner wanted the interaction, and ignoring warnings to back away.

@savvy7 your last post was pointless as I had said in my post that you have a nice dog and are a poor owner , and I’m entitled to give my opinion whether you care or not .

My dog also isn’t aggressive , he isn’t interested in other dogs , he may become aggressive if he is repeatedly harangued but he wouldn’t actually start a fight . Like many others my issue is that my dog won’t back down from a fight and because he is getting on in years and 14kg he is always going to come off worse with a GSD / large staff / bulldog so I end up getting bitten having to pick him up because the other owners IME are usually completely ineffectual once their large dog kicks off .

@DiddlyWiddly

I couldn't care less if another dog comes up when we're playing ball. In fact I would stop the ball game so the dogs can have a social interaction Ball is my dog’s favourite thing in the whole entire world.. She’d forego dinner for a game with the ball thrower. She does not want to socialise.

But as I said before, dogs have well developed communication
That this dog entirely ignored.

they are more than capable of saying go away to another dog
Which my dog did.

If my dog approaches another off lead dog, it's up to the dog to tell my dog to go away if he doesn't want to play. At which time my dog would leave it alone
Which this dog didn’t.
In fact, thinking about it, I can’t ever remembering having a rude, usually adolescent dog run over to us that left us alone after my dog told it clearly it’s interaction isn’t wanted.
Which isn’t surprising because well socialised dogs don’t rush up to strange dogs in the first place.

Dogs need to socalises and I feel alot of this, don't let dogs approach other dogs, comes from antisocial humans projecting onto their dogs
SHE.DOES.NOT.WANT.TO.SOCIALISE
Why is this such a bizarre concept?!
She is not a social dog.

You mention a ball thrower in your post. Are you aware of the risks of these things? I know I wasn't initially until advised by one of my dogs breeders

www.agilitynet.co.uk/health/bewareballflingers_lynnwetenhall.htm

Plenty on the internet about it.

I tend to kick a ball a short distance for my FCR - so he trots after it at a jog rather than a full on sprint and sudden skidding to a halt (as per ball flingers / throwers)

[quote Floralnomad]@savvy7 your last post was pointless as I had said in my post that you have a nice dog and are a poor owner , and I’m entitled to give my opinion whether you care or not .[/quote]
That's a wanky thing to say (just my opinion )

Yes I am and I don’t use it much.

I tend to kick a ball a short distance for my FCR - so he trots after it at a jog rather than a full on sprint and sudden skidding to a halt (as per ball flingers / throwers)
I do this with balls she finds, she still sprints and skids to a halt!

You must be better at kicking a ball than me - it literally trundles a few feet when I do it

@LimitIsUp

You must be better at kicking a ball than me - it literally trundles a few feet when I do it

Probably not, she is just very enthusiastic when it comes to balls!