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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Elderly terrier with neurological disorder - advice needed re PTS

15 replies

Random789 · 19/04/2021 10:31

My parson russell is nearly 16 and has gone steadily downhill for a few months. He's been seeing the vet regularly and they've been prescribing pain relief - loxicom, gabapentine, diazepam. He's been increasingly wobbly, falling occasionally and very confused and spaced out much of the time, pacing rather anxiously in the evenings . (The growing wobbliness began before the gabapentine and diazepam so I don't think it is just caused by the meds, though I guess they won't be helping).

However, he still enjoys his walks, he's eating ok, sleeping contentedly a lot of the time.

He had a couple of bad days (falls, severe confusion) so he saw the vet on Saturday. The vet's view was that he has a neurological disorder, it is only going to go one way, and it is time for him to be PTS. However, she also urged me to take a few days with him first to say goodbye, since there wasn't any welfare reason for it to happen immediately. I made an appointment for him to be PTS tomorrow.

Since then he has had a couple of bad episodes. One was simply very severe confusion whre he just seemed entirely absent and his standing body just slowly sagged into lying down and he fell asleep. The other was a fall, after which he just lay on his side without moving at all for a few minutes. While this happened he wet himself and I think I noticed his eyeballs flicking repeatedly left and right.

But he has also had lovely little walks (shuffles really), sniffing and pootleing in the sunshine. And of course I've had the well-meaing fellow dog walkers saying "So long as he is enjoying his walks and eating, then why not keep going with him."

So I am agonising. The vet gave the impression that two or three weeks would be the likely maximum of time I could delay putting him to sleep, and part of me is saying what would be the point of further delay? He doesn't have a desire to live another three weeks. He only understands the moment and it is my job to protect him from bad moments. But part of me is afraid of rushing him towards something that it is not quite time for.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

OP posts:
Internetio · 19/04/2021 10:40

It's a heartbreaking decision to make.

They say it is always better for a day too soon than a day too late. I left my DCat a day too long and bitterly regret it.

Flowers
viques · 19/04/2021 10:41

I think you know really in your heart of hearts what would be the kindest thing to do.

Your old boy has had nearly 16 years of being loved, taken on walks, being played with, fed treats, bought toys, being pampered and snuggled, stroked and petted, he has known love and security.

Remember all the good times you have had with him, the unconditional love that he has given you then ask yourself who will benefit from a few extra days or weeks of a confused half life. Not him, and I suspect not you.

It is hard, but in the end it is the greatest expression of your love for him that you put his needs first and in doing so break your own heart.

tsmainsqueeze · 19/04/2021 10:46

Vet nurse here , anything a vet can do/advise at the moment will just be for borrowed time .
I don't think the fact he is still eating is a fair gauge, lots of animals continue to eat up to the last , look at him from a whole , is he living or existing ?
It is a privilege as human beings to be able to put to sleep a beloved pet when they are no longer enjoying the happy life they once lived , we are able to let them pass before they begin to lose dignity and start to suffer .
What you have described is how we often see very old dogs at their final stage and it sounds like the right time for him .
Whatever you decide i hope all goes peacefully for him .

Accentor · 19/04/2021 10:48

Please don't hesitate any longer. To do so is simply to condemn this animal to more suffering. Unlike you, he has no concept of 'good times to come' to protect him from pain.

Triffid1 · 19/04/2021 10:49

@Internetio

It's a heartbreaking decision to make.

They say it is always better for a day too soon than a day too late. I left my DCat a day too long and bitterly regret it.

Flowers

This. Our family still feel guilty that our DCAT went that little too far so that when we picked her up to take her to the vet, she was crying in pain. It was well intentioned but horrible.

On the other hand, we got the timing right for our gorgeous family labrador so that as my dad picked her up to take her to the vet, she was still alert and happy enough to bark at the other dogs to tell them what to do.

I imagine at some point in the next few days. Sending love (even if you are a stranger). I know how hard it is.

Random789 · 19/04/2021 10:54

Thank you all, very much. All of these posts are very helpful, especially those telling of the distressing experiences that led them to believe they left things a little bit too long . Flowers

It sounds like people here endorse the part of me that thinks it is best to stick with tomorrow's appointment. I think that I endorse that part of me too, and I guess that is what will happen.

OP posts:
PermanentlyDizzy · 19/04/2021 11:36

It is so hard, I really feel for you. Flowers

Our 15.5 year old has been deteriorating with an unknown/unspecified neurological disorder. We initially thought it might be cognitive decline, but he doesn’t fit the symptoms properly and it hasn’t progressed as would normally be expected for CCD. He isn’t as advanced with it as your boy, but we are already soul-searching and having discussions about when would be the right time. Our vet wants us to have a neuro consult and he is fully insured, so we could, but we wouldn’t want to put him through lots of tests or have to hand him over to complete strangers in a carpark. So we are currently logging and videoing episodes for the vet to send to the neuro for advice and to see whether they want to see him.

At the moment our boy is still lucid and interactive, loving walks, food and fuss, still gets excited about things and seems comfortable on his pain meds (although that is monitored closely). He has episodes where he stops, kind of freezes stares, then wobbles and sometimes his head will jerk and eyes twitch. He has also fallen a few times, as he seems to lose coordination in his legs.

He’s had full bloods done and everything came back healthy. Our vet thinks possible partial/focal seizures and suspects vascular/blood flow issues. He is definitely more anxious than he used to be, having always been super laid-back until now and he does sometimes seem to ‘sundown’ but not every night and usually only after he’s got himself stressed about something. We find he’s worse and has more episodes if he is disturbed from sleep or the house is busy and on days where he just sleeps quietly near me he may not have any, although a completely episode free day is rare these days. Stress seems to bring them on as well and he will have an episode if either myself or dh has to go out for any reason, even when left with all three teens, who are all actively involved in his care. He’s sleeping more and more every day as well.

He seems to be completely oblivious to the fact he’s just had an episode and will have one then just walk off and carry on with what he was doing, although often he will walk out of one, straight into another.

We know the day will come when he is more confused and anxious than he is happy and content and the vet thinks his episodes may well progress to full seizures. I read somewhere to make a list of all the things they have loved doing and then see how many of them they are still able or want to enjoy. When the balance tips into existence, rather than enjoying life, that’s when they advise considering pts, sparing them the final days that could mean a big deterioration and medical intervention etc.

We lost our other dog in lockdown1, after a long and horrible illness. We put off having him pts, because we weren’t allowed to go with him due to Covid and he was a highly anxious rescue who was terrified of the vet. In the end he took a sudden turn for the worse and died in my arms at home. We were with him, but it was awful and we both regret not letting him go sooner. Given that time again, we would have let him go at least a month earlier. As a result, I want to make sure we get it right for our old boy.

To be honest, if I was told three weeks, after our experience last summer, I think I would give him one really perfect day, doing everything he loves, say our goodbyes and then let him go peacefully.

It is such a personal decision, but you have given him a fantastic, long life and he knows how loved he is. In the end it is the final thing we can do for them, knowing we are putting their needs first.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Flowers

romdowa · 19/04/2021 11:41

Our 18 year old terrier went this way last summer. Vet said it was the dog equivalent of dementia, my mother delayed in getting her put down even after several episodes where she would pass out and eventually the dog had a massive turn one evening , vet reckoned a stroke and she died in the vets. Had it been mine choice I would have saved the dog the last few weeks of misery , she had had a long and full life and watching her slowly fade was very hard. In the end I was glad she went as my mother was unable to make the call to end the dogs suffering

Random789 · 19/04/2021 12:19

Thank you , permanentlydizzy and romdowa. I'm sorry for the difficult experiences that both you you are having, or have had, with your elderly dogs. Permanentlydizzy, your dog seems to be going through very similar experiences as mine, and perhaps at the same stage. It seems that your vet is being much more hands-on and thorough. I hope my vet has been thorough enough. Because of having to wait outside, I didn't get to see which vet examined him -- everything was explained to me via a vet nurse. She was very authoritative and sensible, and knows my dog from earlier days so I trust her completely. But I know my surgery often has very junior vets and I don't know whether to trust a vet i haven't seen. The key diagnostic test they mentioned the other day was turning the paw over and observing my dog's response. (He failed that very badly.)

Actually a hands-off, minimally intrusive approach by the vet is, generally speaking, completely the right thing for my dear old terrier as he has always hated the vets and been frightened there. In fact, one measure of his decline was the sheer possibility of handing him over to a nurse to be carried into the surgery and examined. In the past he would have been a whirl of fear and fury in that situation.

There is no way I would put him through extensive treatment at this stage. I know it would be too much for him. But, still, I don't want the vet to be too hands off.

OP posts:
AvocadosBeforeMortgages · 19/04/2021 13:16

I think the old maxim of "better a week too early than a day too late" is right here.

Give him a fantastic day in the sunshine, feed him rotisserie chicken (or whatever he loves best) and let him go peacefully Flowers

PermanentlyDizzy · 19/04/2021 13:29

Random, I make sure I book with the vet I want by name, as ours is has lots of young vets as well.

I type up a sheet for the vet to read every time I go. Just observations from last time, any changes, frequency and when episodes happen, what his general demeanour and quality of life is and what his schedule is. Then I put any questions I would like answered on the bottom. We’re lucky though, because the vet comes out to speak to us herself.

He’s ok on all the basic neuro tests the vet does - goes every month for a check-up and there’s been no sign of deterioration with that. He does knuckle under one back paw occasionally, but rights it again straight away and always rights it if you do it to his foot.

He’s usually ok with our vets and happily trots in expecting treats, but at his last appointment a couple of weeks back he wasn’t keen to go in the door. I just don’t think it would be fair to drag him to a big vet hospital and hand him over to strangers in the carpark, even for a basic examination, let alone tests. If we could go in with him for a chat, that might be worth doing. Maybe to discuss prognosis and what they suspect it may be, but I don’t want to put him through any unnecessary stress, especially as, like you, I wouldn’t put him through any treatment, (other than perhaps trialling meds that wouldn’t have bad side effects).

Our vet says we don’t need to be thinking about pts at this point, as he’s bright isn’t in pain, interacts well with them at appointments and she is happy he still has a great quality of life. If I’m honest, in my head I am expecting a potential decline over the next three months though, even though she hasn’t given us any timeframes. He’s just shot out the door with ds1 and dh for his walk. Trotting along, tail up, clearly loving every minute you wouldn’t know there was anything wrong with him.

We’re recording every time anyone sees him have an episode on a little whiteboard. Just a simple tally of red/orange/green depending on the severity, so we can see how often he’s having them. Just one orange so far today, when next door’s builders threw something in the skip and woke him with a start. Reds are rare at the moment, but if they start increasing we will have to make some serious decisions.

villainousbroodmare · 19/04/2021 13:32

A good question to evaluate quality of life is: is he thriving or surviving?

Catsrus · 19/04/2021 18:18

It's the last kind act we can do for them - let them go before life becomes unbearable, The only regret I've ever had about putting an animal to sleep was when I left it too long. Lesson learned, never again.

Enjoy your final time with him, but let him go.

Soontobe60 · 19/04/2021 18:22

It’s time for him to go. Xx

Random789 · 19/04/2021 19:28

Thanks everyone.

Permanentlydizzy, it does sound from your additional description that your old dog does still have much more quality of life than mine.

You are being so diligent and caring. I'm sure you will make all the best decisions as things move along. I agree about the need to avoid as far as possible a horrible referral for all sorts of tests at an unfamiliar specialist surgery that you can't enter with him -- though he sounds like a happier and more cooperative patient than my terrier!.

It sounds like he is still having a good time and I hope that lasts as long as possible. xx

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