Keeping dogs on short lead at all times when out in the countryside?

[DoubleTweenQueen]

Can someone knowledgeable give me advice about the current law regarding ground-nesting birds and walking your dog?
The Gov website says to keep to paths and keep dog on a lead between March and end July to protect ground nesting birds. Other sites say short lead over this period, as do the NT.

I have a young dog I am training and use a long-lead (10m) - she behaves really well on this - potters ahead on the path, checks back with me, we can do a bit of recall training up and down the path when it’s quiet. I keep to areas where the grass is short and there are plenty of visitors, so I wouldn’t think there would be ground nesting birds where we go?

What do you all do? Do you follow the blanket short-lead (no long-line, no off-lead) when out and about? (I know this is not the case!)

I can’t imagine keeping her on a short lead at all times - we are training and short lead/loose-lead is the pinnacle of that, which takes months of work for a breed like mine.

I think a long lead is fine as long as there is a lead. We live rurally and keep our dogs on leads when walking locally because the place is coming down with sheep and cows. I had never thought about nesting birds.

At the risk of sounding like a terrible person...

I don’t generally keep my dog on lead in woodland through nesting season.

On a sunny day especially it is not unusual to see children rampaging through the woodland, far deeper in than my dog would typically go.
Running, screaming, shouting, trampling plants, picking wildflowers, damaging trees...

There are no signs warning parents keep their children under control and I imagine the actions of said children cause far more disturbance and damage than my dog so I don’t usually bother.

That said, she never digs and she isn’t particularly predatory.
If she was the sort of dog that wanted to dig holes on a walk, go down rabbit holes, flush out birds etc I wouldn’t have her off lead as then I would be worried about her destroying nests, killing fledglings etc but as it is, I don’t worry about it.

Yes, this is a new one on me - the blanket nature of it really.

I am careful near the river (chalk stream) but otherwise I don't kepe mine on a lead on walks. Live v rurally.

I'm interested about your line though is that an extending lead? I'm training our second lab puppy and Ive had to put him on an extender as he jumps at people, I prefer him off lead as his recall is fine - except when he sees a person who might love him and then he jumps at them.

@actiongirl1978 No, not extendable - a 10m long-line. For open areas without livestock. I have a 1.5m lead which I put on if we’re near a road or on a woodland path/near livestock. She pulls very badly though!

My young dog doesn’t jump or bark at anyone or their dog - just likes to sit and observe mostly, but I can put a foot on her line to keep her close while others are passing, just out of courtesy really.

We are semi-rural - so busy roads, people, towns a few miles away, but lots of open spaces plus NT parkland. We have lots of wonderful wildlife and birds - plenty of skylarks, buzzards, kites, owls, bats etc.Lots of walkers/visitors and dogs.
I aim to be a responsible dog owner - this has thrown me a bit.

Doesn't the line get caught under their legs? I'm really interested in this as a technique I'd love to know more 😊

I use a 30ft line (is that 10M? I can’t convert it) in open areas where there is space so I know she can’t get into the trees or long grass even at full length.

@actiongirl1978 It sometimes goes under her body and through her back legs but she corrects it quickly - often by herself, just stepping over it. It works really well. She doesn’t usually go around in circles, which could get complicated. It takes them a few gos to get the hang of it - she did romp off at first, and pull my shoulder a couple of times, but no damage!
(Attaches to the back ring on a harness)

Doesn't the line get caught under their legs?
Some people are very skilled but personally I find long lines very, very difficult.
Gets tangled up in the dog, myself and the surroundings!

@BigWolfLittleWolf I think it depends on the dog, really. Mine’s happy to potter a bit further ahead, with some excursions to the side for sniffs. If we get caught up on something, she will stop and wait while I free us up :)

Anyway - was hoping to use a lovely area on our local NT park, which is vast, livestock-free and for the most part short-mown, with plenty of visitors, but I can’t talk to anyone at the moment as to whether that would be sensible or completely out of the question, so not sure where to take her for her training session.

think it depends on the dog, really. Mine’s happy to potter a bit further ahead, with some excursions to the side for sniffs. If we get caught up on something, she will stop and wait while I free us up
Ah yes, mine only potters if she’s overdone it and hurt herself!
She runs far and wide...

On moorland which is privately owned NT have access through and there are usually signs that dogs are to be on leads. Also through livestock dogs are to be on leads. I live rural it causes no end of trouble as people think it does not apply to them and their dog is well trained therefore let dog off. My dogs always on a leash. There are lots of ground nesting birds that is someone's livelihood. My advice keep your dog on a leash on the moors. I've know gamekeepers shoot off leash dogs.

@Sitdowncupoftea Yes, that makes perfect sense to me, but there is lots of land hat is well used and visited where it would be unlikely to have ground-nesting birds, but it would appear the law covers it all.

There are lots of ground nesting birds that is someone's livelihood. My advice keep your dog on a leash on the moors. I've know gamekeepers shoot off leash dogs
Ugh, is that a reference to pheasants?
The fucking nerve of gamekeepers considering the horrendous damage they’ve done and continuing to do to birds of prey
Fortunately, I do not live anywhere near the moors or rural estates.

@DoubleTweenQueen

Anyway - was hoping to use a lovely area on our local NT park, which is vast, livestock-free and for the most part short-mown, with plenty of visitors, but I can’t talk to anyone at the moment as to whether that would be sensible or completely out of the question, so not sure where to take her for her training session.

If its mowed then there won't be ground nesting birds.

We keep our dog on a lead if there is a specific sign, dune system before we get to the beach or moorland.
Otherwise we let her off.

If it's mown I'd put her on the longlead. There's not going to be anything nesting. I'd try to find a dog park for some extended off lead training.

She sounds lovely :)

Our local SSSI specifies a lead of less than 2m at this time of year. I’m the only one in town that can read though so there are loose dogs merrily trampling through the reeds and bushes everywhere you look.

Yes I think the law on open access land is a lead less than 2m at this time of year

www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-your-right-to-roam

I think 'mown' grass is usually fine. And the reason they aren't telling children not to run around is that generally, the bird nesting areas are not on the type of grounds small children run around on. And it's dogs that flush the birds from their nests instinctively. We have a lot of skylarks nesting where we are so have to be ultra careful (I just don't walk the dog anywhere near those fields).

And the reason they aren't telling children not to run around is that generally, the bird nesting areas are not on the type of grounds small children run around on
The woodlands I mentioned specifically do have signs stating to keep dogs on lead from March to September to protect ground nesting birds.

If my dog was the sort to flush birds, hunt rabbits, go down setts etc I absolutely would leash her, at all times of the year, because I wouldn’t want her to harm any wildlife but I do find the signs hypocritical and ridiculous when they are seemingly happy to allow children to run riot, screaming and shouting, climbing trees (and breaking the branches), pulling wildflowers, stomping over the plants etc all of which I do expect is quite a bit more damaging and destructive, not just to ground nesting birds but all of the wildlife present, than dogs running free!

As for the moorland, as I say, considering the damage done to birds of prey by gamekeepers I think it’s a bit rich to complain about the damage dogs do and insist they are leashed.
Somehow, while I can certainly see that some dogs pose a problem, I don’t imagine that all the dogs put together could manage quite the same level of destruction that gamekeepers have re birds of prey (and badgers, stoats, weasels and foxes to a lesser extent)
Or do those birds (and native British mammals) not matter because they don’t make money... 🤔

OP thanks for the info and good luck with the training.

I absolutely love hearing and spotting the skylarks :) plenty around here.
Woodpeckers too.

@TheThingsWeAdmitOnMN That’s a lovely thing to say :) She is a lovely girl - am trying to bring her up well. She eats more roast chicken than I do :D
She has a lovely big garden to storm around, so our walks are more under control, but she really appreciates going out and about, and it’s the best place for proofing training, with the distractions. Also, for building steadiness (impulse control) around livestock and wildlife. Invaluable really.

I will apply common sense and judgement. See how I get on.

@HappyThursdays Hello! I know you also have a spaniel, a little older than mine. My confusion is with my local NT parkland mostly, so I need to have a chat with them, I think.

Thanks for everyone’s input!

Yes I love the skylarks too! Will be interesting to hear what they say (the NT). I hope they will be sensible as if they have vast areas of mown land, is v unlikely any birds will be on it!

There are notices where we live warning of ground nesting birds. You can literally hear and see the rustling from the footpath! I wouldn't take a dog on those routes during that period and if I did, I'd keep them on a shorter lead and keep them on the path. Lots of alternative walks where they won't disturb the birds.