Introducing a puppy to grumpy adult

[Thepuppyiscoming]

He’s going to be here soon!
But I’m starting to get a bit nervous about introducing to our current dog...

So, current dog is 8 and she isn’t what I would call ‘friendly’.
I wouldn’t say she is dangerous or properly aggressive either though.
She’s intolerant and grouchy imo

If given space to do so, 9 times out of 10 she chooses to avoid other dogs.
If other dogs approach her she tends to approach them all high tailed, sometimes she’s fine, sometimes she’ll growl and air snap at them.
Sometimes she won’t even approach, she’ll just straight up growl or lip curl at them.
Sometimes she is absolutely fine and has a little game of chase but generally, she doesn’t interact nicely with other dogs.

The few times she has met very bouncy puppies on walks she has been incredibly air snappy at them.
Happy to walk with them but ignores them entirely and snaps if they dare try and interact with her.

I did have a relatives older puppy in the house once, he was around 16 weeks old and pestered her relentlessly hanging off her tail and nipping her ankles.
She was happy to ignore the pup and play with her ball, happy for the pup to make off with her toys and happy to sit next to the puppy and eat treats together but instant growls and air snaps when the pup actually tried to interact with her.

My DH isn’t worried in the slightest but I am.
The puppy is a breed considerably smaller than she is and I’m worried she’ll hate him?
Also worried incase she injures him?

Am I worrying unnecessarily?

I am planning to intervene frequently and not let the puppy harass her too much, I have a pen coming where the puppy can sleep and play away from her for a lot of the day.

This is all overwhelmingly negative, possibly, but hopefully not rightfully so.

Tbh, this is sending my anxiety rocketing so I’m going to give this thread a break and update or start a new thread when puppy is actually here.

I will be keeping them largely separate and fingers crossed the update will be a happy one.

I do have to quickly point out aswell though that although my existing dog is 8 she is in really fantastic health and is not in any way shape or form ‘slowing down’

So, your old dog doesn't like other dogs, and you plan to keep the puppy in a pen or crate until they do - which might be never. . What were you thinking?

We got our dog from another family who had bought him provide companionship for their grumpy dog. It didn't work out and they couldn't be left alone together. They had to rehome him at 4 months. I think some dogs just aren't well suited to sharing their home/family with another dog.

So, your old dog doesn't like other dogs, and you plan to keep the puppy in a pen or crate until they do which might be never
Uh no.
I plan to keep the puppy in it’s pen for introductions, for naps and for when it is harassing my dog.

I know from spending time with puppies that my dog will most likely ignore it, unless it is harassing her and although I actually don’t think she would ever go above a growl or air snap I am a bit nervous incase she does.

IF my dog really does not bond at all, ever, and/or I think she poses a risk to the puppy then obviously he is going to have to go back to the breeder or be rehomed.

But as I say, I’ll update when he is actually here

@Thepuppyiscoming

If your house is open plan, how will you manage to separate the puppy from your current dog? Pen and crate.

Okay, but what if they never get on?

Okay, but what if they never get on?
Then I will admit I made a stupid, dreadful mistake and the puppy will have to go back to the breeder or be rehomed.

We had one of those too. We introduced them at the breeds house to start with. Then took the puppy into the house first and into the back garden, we then took our grumpy old man in afterwards and they met there. It was better than expected.

What i always did and still do, is greet the older dog first, he gets his tea first and a treat first. Make sure you don't leave him out. He's a lot more tolerant of the puppy (who's now 2), and will even play now and again, but I don't think he likes the puppy much, but the puppy lurvvvvvvs him

@Thepuppyiscoming

Okay, but what if they never get on? Then I will admit I made a stupid, dreadful mistake and the puppy will have to go back to the breeder or be rehomed.

Wow. The ultimate example of self indulgence. This isn't a dress you've ordered online that you can just return if the sizing isn't right.

Our grumpy oldie (11) had a new lease of life when we got the 12 month old rescue (I know that’s older but he is very bouncy)
They are besties now. We were lucky that we could introduce them before we decided to get the rescue but I actually think he would’ve been ok with a puppy too judging how he’s behaving

I havent read the thread but can imagine the comments

Introducing a puppy to an old dog can take time that is fine and normal.

I would set up puppy pens, crates and baby gates so that the dogs are safe from each other.

Smell is amzing at helping with this so if you can rub the puppy with a cloth and put it down by "grumpy dog" as he eats his food he will associate the puppy smell with great things. If you can do this before the puppy even arrives it will help. so send a pblanket to the breeder for them to rub on the puppy.

Let "Grumpy" see the puppy but be separated by the gates or pens and do things with "grumpy" so feed him treats play games (not to lively to excite the puppy).

After a while when the dogs can be in the same area separated but ignoring each other put the dogs on a lead and two of you walk them in the garden be parallel to each other and as far away as you can be from each other.

If there is no resource guarding issues and they can be away from each other but see each other try scatter feeding. This lets the dogs do things together which is calming but they are happy in each others company.

Do give the original dog lots of time to chill and lots of time 121 with you.

With careful management and taking things slowly this can be sorted. Go at the pace of the older dog. It can take a month or so and then you will see the older dog giving a gently wag of the tail when he sees the puppy

Enjoy your new puppy

Thanks polly
I am already planning to use the pen to keep them largely separate and the scented blanket is a great idea, I’ll definitely do that.

Grumpy dog isn’t at all guardy, not in the slightest so I’m not concerned about that at all.
She isn’t particularly territorial either.

Wow. The ultimate example of self indulgence. This isn't a dress you've ordered online that you can just return if the sizing isn't right

I could cry at the attitude of some people.

Think I'll leave this thread too - my blood pressure is rising.

@Thepuppyiscoming

But he was always fine with puppies - he'd deal with them if they got too annoying, but never in an aggressive manner - the dog equivalent of a clip round the ear But that’s the thing, when does it slip into ‘aggression’?

I’ve been reading a lot about this and I am so confused, a lot of sites say it’s normal for the dog to hate the puppy initially, that they may growl or the pin the puppy to teach the puppy manners?

I was thinking that if she was truly aggressive she wouldn’t have been sitting happily next to my BIL’s 16 weeker for example taking it in turns to eat biscuits?
Nor been entirely unbothered about him pinching and making off with her toys?

My main feeling is that she is going to be thoroughly unpleasant initially but they will be friends when the puppy behaves more calmly around her, but then I’m getting worried incase she outright despises him and they never become friends! Or if she hurts him.

It slips into aggression where the response is actually harmful, or delivered where not required etc. Pretty obvious really.

A puppy jumping on top of a dog and being warned to stop is quite different from a puppy that's scared to enter a room because everytime they do they get attacked.

@userxx

Wow. The ultimate example of self indulgence. This isn't a dress you've ordered online that you can just return if the sizing isn't right

I could cry at the attitude of some people.

Think I'll leave this thread too - my blood pressure is rising.

Ugh, this has been taken entirely wrongly.

I didn’t mean it in a flippant way at all, if I thought my dog posed a danger to a puppy or would never, ever get along with it then I wouldn’t buy one.

She has never bitten another dog.
She does get on well with certain dogs.
We have had a puppy here before and she never hurt him or even frightened him.

I put the thread up because the puppy is a breed considerably smaller than her and I just had some sudden doubts and fears as to what if they hate each other forever or what if she corrects the puppy and hurts him.
I imagine most people buying second dogs must have similar thoughts?!

I will be doing everything I can to ensure no one is stressed.
I have a pen coming, the puppy and adult dog will be sleeping separately, eating separately, I won’t be allowing the puppy to harass her.
The only reason that happened with the previous puppy is because I had no idea BIL was bringing him so had no time to consider a plan of introducing them/keeping them separate.

I don’t intend to rehome the puppy at all but worst case scenario I would have to as if my adult hated him and attacked him as he wouldn’t be safe would he?
What do you expect me to do in that situation?
Leave it until the puppy is injured..?

Not that I actually think my dog would attack him.
Growl/snap at him for harassing her, definitely.
Actually physically hurt him, no I don’t actually think she is that sort of dog tbh but until puppy is here I won’t know

@Thepuppyiscoming

I do have to quickly point out aswell though that although my existing dog is 8 she is in really fantastic health and is not in any way shape or form ‘slowing down’

About 80% of 8 year old dogs will have some level of arthritis. Most dogs over the age of 3-4 have dental disease.

Chronic pain definitely affects temperament and ruling it out as a possible trigger seems a sensible safeguard for your new puppy as well as protecting the welfare of your existing dog.

I also think you need to rethink your boundary for rehoming. Your focus seems to be that injury to the pup would be the line in the sand. What about chronic stress to your current dog ? She shouldn't have to be so miserable that she injures the puppy before you pay attention to her behaviour

About 80% of 8 year old dogs will have some level of arthritis. Most dogs over the age of 3-4 have dental disease
Okay, well I can’t say for sure she isn’t arthritic but I don’t notice any stiffness and she does a 3 - 4 hour walk most days easily with a lot of that spent running and jumping.
I can’t say for sure but I’d be surprised if she was arthritic and as for her teeth, I dont think she has any level of gum disease.
Her teeth are brushed daily, she has no bad breath and no visible tartar

I would like a second dog , but my existing dog sounds like yours so we have stayed a single dog household . I do not think it’s fair to inflict another dog on him in his home , sometimes you just have to consider your existing animals a bit more before you make decisions .

OP don't forget, you know your dog best. I've also been on the receiving end of snap judgements on the doghouse!

Pick out the good advice - blanket, crates, time and space, routine etc - and just do your utmost, it will probably work out very well x just don't be blasé!

@Thepuppyiscoming

About 80% of 8 year old dogs will have some level of arthritis. Most dogs over the age of 3-4 have dental disease Okay, well I can’t say for sure she isn’t arthritic but I don’t notice any stiffness and she does a 3 - 4 hour walk most days easily with a lot of that spent running and jumping. I can’t say for sure but I’d be surprised if she was arthritic and as for her teeth, I dont think she has any level of gum disease. Her teeth are brushed daily, she has no bad breath and no visible tartar

Ok - that sounds great for her Sadly it sounds like there may not be an underlying trigger for her grumpiness that you can't address medically. It may just be that she dislikes other dogs

I'm not a behaviourist or anything, so all I can offer is our experience of introducing a puppy to a grumpy older dog, who was always suspicious of new dogs to the point of barking and wanting to chase them away, but once he got know them was very happy to have canine pals.

We did the intro on neutral ground. He sniffed her, ignored her, sniffed again etc. They did okay in the house - she was very confident. Yes, he did snap and discipline her, but he never went after her to beat her up or anything like that. They settled down quickly, and though they have never shared the same bed, they've piled up together in front of the fire with the cat, and in the younger dog's puppy days they did play sometimes.

They settled into a decent relationship quite quickly, really. They can eat together, share the boot of the car, be left unsupervised: I don't worry about them together at all.

Honestly @Thepuppyiscoming just be sensible, it will probably be fine. I've had dogs for over 35yrs, always more than one, a fair share of grumpy ones.

Grumpy doesn't mean a dog is vicious any more than an introverted person turns into a psychopath if they have to live with another person.

Make sure your old boy has space to retreat to if he needs it.

I ended up doing an emergency foster of a pup after it's owner died, once my grumpy old man (11yrs) had put the pup in its place he started to play with it - so we kept the pup. They are now best mates, wrestle and chase round the garden.

Of course sometimes dogs hate new arrivals and a pairing doesn't work, but I think that's rare when the newcomer is a puppy. The odds are on your side.

I'm looking to get a new puppy soon, my dog is 4 and sounds quite similar. We are seeing a dog behaviourist next month before we make that final decision though - from our initial chats, she seems to think he might be the way he is because of me. My anxiety over how he reacts to other dogs puts him on edge. I put him on the lead as soon as I see another dog, and put him to the other side of me and make the lead short. So although it might be that he just doesn't like other dogs (in which case, sadly, no new puppy), it might instead be that I make him think every other dog is a threat. In which case I need training more than him! But I have the same worries so I wish you the very best with this. There seems to be some good advice here about keeping them separate and not expecting too much at the beginning.

@Rocket3000

I'm looking to get a new puppy soon, my dog is 4 and sounds quite similar. We are seeing a dog behaviourist next month before we make that final decision though - from our initial chats, she seems to think he might be the way he is because of me. My anxiety over how he reacts to other dogs puts him on edge. I put him on the lead as soon as I see another dog, and put him to the other side of me and make the lead short. So although it might be that he just doesn't like other dogs (in which case, sadly, no new puppy), it might instead be that I make him think every other dog is a threat. In which case I need training more than him! But I have the same worries so I wish you the very best with this. There seems to be some good advice here about keeping them separate and not expecting too much at the beginning.

I sometimes suspect the same, that I have inadvertently taught her I don’t want her to interact with other dogs. But then, she does occasionally take a shine to another dog and has a little play with them. I don’t know. She is FAR better with small dogs hence why the puppy is a toy breed. But then she did make unlikely friends with a massive, young boisterous Labrador once, which is most unlike her!

She has been boarding a few times in her life and the boarder says she usually growls initially if anyone approaches her and ignores everyone but after a few days she starts forming friendships with the other dogs.
She takes a long time to warm up to others I suppose 🤷‍♀️

She is a hard one to read really.
Sometimes I think she’s scared of other dogs but other times I think it’s the opposite, she never has ‘scared’ body language, it’s always a tall confident posture, sometimes I think she is quite self assured and not afraid to tell them she doesn’t want to interact today.

A dog approached her a few days ago, she was ahead of me and was all tail and head up, gave the dog a lip curl and the owner grabbed it and you could tell she was SO pleased with herself.
Trotted very confidently right past the dog towards me with the biggest grin and broad tail wag
I get the same reaction if a dog acts aggressively to her and the owner angrily tells it off, I’m sure if she could speak she’d be laughing, pointing at them saying yes you BAD dog!