Advice needed with growling puppy

[RubyRoses]

We have a 4 month old JR terrier who is the loveliest puppy with us all at home and at his daycare. However he is obviously a lockdown puppy which I know comes with it's challenges. We have tried hard to socialise him (school gates, doggy daycare, plenty of walks in lots of places etc.) and he is pretty good with other dogs and with people/places where he is familiar, however, he has become very snappy and now growls at people when he is first introduced. This is either when they come to our garden or when we meet people out for a walk. I have tried various distractions etc. but am worried as I don't want this behaviour to continue. My DH isn't really concerned as he feels he is still young so probably just a phase whilst he is feeling anxious in these various situations, but I feel it needs sorting ASAP - I'm not sure which of us is right? Any advice would be really welcomed as I really don't want him growing up and continuing with these behaviours and we all love him to bits so want others to see how lovely he is too! Thank you

I would recommend you see a professional who can help you :) your vet should be able to advise someone local!

Definitely worth seeing a behaviourist. They can help you spot what’s triggering this behaviour and prevent it. For now I would avoid anything that causes it.

I had similar with my dog when he was little - he would growl at my son if picked off my knee.

The only thing that stopped it was a firm no, maybe backed up with a small tap on the nose if that doesn't work.

That’s awful advice.
Dogs growling is communication. Punish them for that and they are likely to jump straight to biting.
If dog doesn’t want to meet people, be picked up or whatever then avoid doing that.

@savvy7

I had similar with my dog when he was little - he would growl at my son if picked off my knee.

The only thing that stopped it was a firm no, maybe backed up with a small tap on the nose if that doesn't work.

Awful, daft advice. A growl is a warning. All you've done is train your dog not to growl when it's feeling worried. Stopping the growl means the dog loses this method of communication and can move on to snapping, or worse. And please don't lay hands on your dogs fgs.

OP, agree you should see a professional, and in the meantime avoid situations that could trigger your dog to growl. They go through fear periods so it could be that yours is going through one of those and that's why he's more worried than he has been.

@savvy7

I had similar with my dog when he was little - he would growl at my son if picked off my knee.

The only thing that stopped it was a firm no, maybe backed up with a small tap on the nose if that doesn't work.

Sorry, but this is appalling advice.

Growling is communication. If you punish a growl, the dog has no choice but to escalate straight to a snap or a bite.

Err .. no, my dog is now fantastically well behaved :)

Do not punish a growling dog, growling is one of the ways a dog can say “I don’t like this”.

So you are all dog behaviouralists are you? No, thought not

@savvy7

Err .. no, my dog is now fantastically well behaved :)

That's irrelevant - you're giving bad advice that could potentially be very, very dangerous.

Growling should never, ever be punished out of a dog.

Hitting a dog on the nose is also appalling behaviour.

www.pawsitiveplus.com/post/don-t-punish-the-growl

www.gooddogsantacruz.com/never-punish-your-dog-for-growling/

www.creaturegoodpetcare.com/dont-punish-the-growl-what-to-do-instead/

www.4pawsuniversity.com/post/2015/04/12/dont-punish-the-growl

@savvy7

So you are all dog behaviouralists are you? No, thought not

I doubt anyone would take advice from someone who advocates hitting a dog.

@savvy7

So you are all dog behaviouralists are you? No, thought not

I do have qualifications in dog behaviour and body language, actually.

Your advice is about 15 years out of date and is dangerous.

Please don't tell people to punish their dogs and tap them on the nose.

You probably dont need a behaviourist to start with. I would contact a gualified trainer to start with. This is pretty common puppy behaviour and can usually be sorted - IF it is a bigger issue the trainer will refer you on to a behaviourist.

In the meantime keep your puppy at a distance they are happy with. So give more space and do not ever force a meeting. If there is growling or lunging move away and make a note not to get so close in for a few weeks.

If you have friends you could work with them. Aske them to keep their distance and throwing a treat behind the puppy. If the puppy goes and eats the treat then get your friend to throw another treat behind the puppy.

This give the puppy a chance to move away from scary friend and if the dog is happy to move back closer to the friend. Do not force this at all.

It's not bad advice - I actually brought a dog expert in when I got my puppy.

A firm tone is not punishing a dog - it is letting the dog know that their behaviour is not acceptable.

Whatever next - a small tap on the nose is hitting a dog!

I'm sure OP is intelligent enough not to take advice from someone who advocates physical chastisement :)

Well I can assure you my dog is as well behaved as any you will ever meet . Oh is that because I beat him on a regular basis???

I'm not really interested in arguing with someone who thinks it's acceptable to punish a dog for growling and hit them on the nose.

Modern dog training as moved on from such archaic practises.

FYI just because something works, doesn't mean it's acceptable. Hands touching your dog should be a positive experience for dogs, not something they're afraid of.

Do you not reprimand your children with a firm voice Mrs sunflowers?

Reprimand is not the same as punishing. And if you had been "intelligent" enough to read what I said, I said a firm no backed up with a small tap on the nose. FGS, hardly physical punishment.

Anyway I gotta go see to my beautifully well trained dog. Have fun with your extendable lead

Firstly, you are right to want to sort it out now. Terriers are big characters so don’t let their size fool you. You need to take charge now or else you’ll have a dog you can’t trust around other people. Call a behavioural trainer in now while it’s still young.

Secondly, I think it’s unfair on the PP who suggested using a tap on the nose having such a negative response. There are different types of training methods. I grew up with Barbra Woodhouse era! When we had our DDogs 13 years ago, Cesar Milan was the trainer of choice. It’s literally a case of horses for courses - what suits one dog won’t suit another. We had to be very firm with our pups when we first had them. They were loved but they know their place in our (their) home. Dogs need to be treated like dogs and not as play things. Firm but fair.

@savvy7

Do you not reprimand your children with a firm voice Mrs sunflowers?

Reprimand is not the same as punishing. And if you had been "intelligent" enough to read what I said, I said a firm no backed up with a small tap on the nose. FGS, hardly physical punishment.

Anyway I gotta go see to my beautifully well trained dog. Have fun with your extendable lead

Do you not reprimand your children with a firm voice Mrs sunflowers?

They are children, not dogs.

Reprimand is not the same as punishing. And if you had been "intelligent" enough to read what I said, I said a firm no backed up with a small tap on the nose. FGS, hardly physical punishment.

It's still out-dated and potentially dangerous. And it's incredibly irresponsible to post such advice online. But you don't really seem to care about that.

Anyway I gotta go see to my beautifully well trained dog. Have fun with your extendable lead

What ARE you talking about?

FYI I'm a professional dog walker, fully qualified in first aid, canine behaviour and body language. I DO know what I'm talking about - I train dogs every day. And I don't "tap" any of them on the nose to do it :)

Secondly, I think it’s unfair on the PP who suggested using a tap on the nose having such a negative response. There are different types of training methods. I grew up with Barbra Woodhouse era! When we had our DDogs 13 years ago, Cesar Milan was the trainer of choice.

Yep, and we've moved on since then.

You don't need to tap a dog on the nose to teach them how to behave. Cesar Milan is also an advocate of the alpha roll, shock and prong collars. I wouldn't trust him with a pot plant, let alone a living, breathing creature.

I'm glad PP received the reaction they did. People who continue to advocate out-dated and dangerous methods of dog training need to be called out on it.

There are plenty of links upthread to support what I've said, if you're interested. All the professional training I've done in the last two years would also back those links up :)

This thread is going down a rabbit hole

Unfortunately it is not horses for courses re dog training. Luckily we have moved on from BW days and CesarMilan has been banned from many countries due to his inappropriate training methods.

All dogs learn in the same way by association and by consequence.

Consequence is easy for us reinforce the correct behaviour and it wil be repeated.

The trouble with pubishment is that as dogs also learn by association if you do hit/tap your dog on the nose it will have no idea why you did it. The learning by association means the dog will be wary of you and this will have major impact on other training areas.

Reprimand is not the same as punishing

So the science on this is clear: there ARE only 3 outcomes that influence behaviour (via operant conditioning):

1. Things the dogs likes/wants (science calls these reinforcers) - increases the chances of a behaviour happening
2. Things the dog does not like (science calls these punishers) - decreases the chances of a behaviour happening
3. Things the dog feels neutral about - has no influence on behaviour at all.

If you do something that 'teaches' the dog something, you have to have used one of those 3 results. There is nothing else.

Skinners theory of Operant Conditioning, based on Thorndikes Law of Effect. Well worth a read up for those interested in such things.

Training needs to be consistent and positive.