Should dogs be kept on a lead?

[Meltinthemiddle]

After the recent story I've heard lots of people saying dogs should be on leads. Whilst the seal story is upsetting, hearing the dog should be put down because it was acting on its own animal instinct is wrong. My puppy is 9mths old and is happiest when off the lead and nose to the ground in the woods. Generally her recall is good, however she likes chasing birds so I do worry what she would do if she caught one. She is the most loving dog though.

I don’t let my dog off the lead because I know if he saw a squirrel or cat, he’d be off - there’s no way he’d reliably come back if I called him. It’s in his breed and will always be there. With less distractions, he’s fine, but I can’t guarantee what we will see out on a walk.

He gets to run around the garden and secure fields like a loon, so gets plenty of exercise, plus we have a long lead for when it’s dry (long lead in the mud is horrid).

I think if you know there are circumstances under which you’re not sure if your dog would come back, and you can’t control those circumstances, they shouldn’t be offlead.

I really don’t think all dogs should be on a lead all of the time. There are no secure dog fields around here (I’ve seen one off-lead enclosure in the city but there are none in my town). I think in areas like woodland walks, country parks, beaches, you should expect a lot of dogs to be off-lead.

I do think that dogs should be on-lead in the street, next to children’s play areas, and anywhere near livestock. If your dog won’t recall in busy parks (mine is unreliable near footballs, for instance), then they should be on a lead. But I’d hate to see dogs restricted absolutely everywhere as a blanket rule. They need to be able to exercise freely at least some of the time, and not everyone has a garden big enough (or any garden!) to do that at home.

What about legislation to protect livestock - if a council has open woodlands popular with dog walkers backing onto farmland, what about legislation saying that they must put up deer fencing? The council, not the farmers! Or give grants to farmers who allow ramblers to cross their land so that they can put up high fences to protect livestock? I’m not sure where the land reform acts come into play - I know you aren’t allowed to go into fields with livestock in them, but you are allowed to cross private land so long as you don’t trample crops.

Or another rule could be that all dogs must wear muzzles. I’d rather that than restrict every form of off-lead exercise.

"She would never attack another human or dog"

Until she does.

You need to put your dog on a lead.

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar

Or another rule could be that all dogs must wear muzzles. I’d rather that than restrict every form of off-lead exercise.

Muzzles aren’t much fun if a dog isn’t a bite risk tbh...

No games of fetch, really hard to give food rewards (you can, but you and the dog need good co-ordination) - so it impacts training. Other dogs get weird because they can’t see facial expressions and so it can make them be aggressive when they’re not normally because it scares them.

And they really hurt if you get muzzle punched, like it can break ribs, and they hit you with a muzzle at full force in other situations other than just bite attempts.

Honestly, I’d rather have more restrictions on where dogs could be offlead than compulsory muzzles.

Your dog shouldn't be off a lead if her recall is "generally good".

The amount of uncontrolled, impolite dogs that come up to my on lead Akita is ridiculous. They always bounce about in his face and unsettle him and it's always followed by an owner strolling up far behind going "oh you silly dog". He's like the pied piper for dogs with shit owners, they see him and make a bee line straight to him.

I'm fed up of people getting soft dogs and not bothering to train them correctly.

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar

Or another rule could be that all dogs must wear muzzles. I’d rather that than restrict every form of off-lead exercise.

Muzzles don't stop dogs attacking - they just stop the bite. A dog in a muzzle can still do a fair bit of damage if it wants to - a big dog hitting a smaller dog while muzzled could quite easily break a leg or a rib.

It's not as simple as muzzle = no damage.

Yes.

Unless:

1. On private land /farm
2. A dog park / area which says dogs can be off lead

I think unless they're in fenced dog park then yes they should be on a lead.

There are far far too many dog owners who think their dog is fine when they're far from it. As usual people can't be trusted to police their own behaviour - or that if their pet - so rules should be brought in to ensure that this happens.

Around here (a designated and signposted 'no dogs off lead' park) the off lead dogs are an absolute menace. The park is an unfenced children's play area one side and a running track with gym equipment on the other. Clearly not a suitable place for off lead dogs, but there they are daily, annoying everyone!

It is a shame because of course there are lots of lovely dogs who are well trained on an off lead but - as with the picking up poo problem - the selfish few ruin it for the responsible owners.

My dog has a very high prey drive so is always muzzled and on a lead unless we hire a secure field. The problem with this country is that we need more dedicated dog parks. We used to live in the US and dogs were not allowed off the lead in public unless it was in a dog park but it wasn't a problem as there were lots of them. You also rarely saw dog poo there either. You didn't have to walk far in our town to find a rubbish bin with poo bags available for you to use.

I'm an animal lover but I really have been sick of dogs over the lockdown. Piles of shit everywhere, dogs jumping up at my toddler and licking his face. There are plenty of sensible owners out there but the many bad ones let them down. I think there are just too many dogs around now. Ultimately they have animals instincts and I just don't trust them to completely obey their owners 100% of the time. I think they should be kept on leads unless at dog parks and there should be big fines for owners who are too lazy to pick up their dogs shit!

I think more people should use long lines. You hardly ever see people use them and I think they they are a great solution to letting the dog have freedom to run (instead of short lead) whilst also having control. I think even the hated retractable leads are safer than dogs being off lead in some cases (shouldn’t be used near roads though)

You can’t play fetch with a lead on either, though.

Jumping up to lick faces is a nuisance but not a danger. Ditto trampling on picnics. I do agree that dog owners should take action to stop their dogs being nuisances, but there’s a difference between that and saying that dog is a nuisance therefore it’s out of control and likely to do something dangerous.

No, but dogs should be under control at all times and should be socialised/trained as pups to be non reactive to wildlife/farm animals. My ddog likes to sit next to my neighbours chicken run to protect them from foxes (hes been allowed to sniff them etc. and has fought a fox that tried to get in), not all dogs have killer instincts.

It's quite possible to train dogs, unfortunately quite a lot of people don't

How would compulsory dog training sound? Your dog has to pass a recall test at the age of 1, say, to be off-lead. Like a driver’s licence. Owners could then choose to have professional lessons, train the dog themselves, or just accept keeping it on a lead. Tests could involve ignoring/recalling when faced with other dogs, cyclists, picnics and sheep. I know this sounds facetious but I actually mean it - it would drive a culture of dog-training and ensure that people getting dogs knew that they were expected to put in a lot of effort.

My trainer would tell us that a dog worrying sheep should be euthanised ( if the farmer did not shoot it) as once it had that bloodlust it would do the same again. I don’t know if that’s true, but I think I would look at mine differently if I had seen them maul something like that.

That's very extreme. Certainly I'd never trust the dog around livestock again, but the solution to that is to walk in areas away from livestock, or on a lead, and to have proper fences.

If that can't be achieved, then the dog can be rehomed - ideally to a more suburban home, where livestock aren't an issue.

Clearly it shouldn't ever be allowed to happen, but euthanasia is OTT when there are so many alternatives.

The problem is that all.dogs are being put in the same category.

You rarely read about attacks to human or animals from a shih tzu for instance. Yet they could potentially have to suffer a life on the lead because of other breeds' behaviour.

My dog would definitely not do any harm. He wabnts to be friends with anything moving! Even if by some totally unexplained chance he did, he could easily be picked up, thrown away, kicked off! I would hate to think that he can never run free, he would be totally devastated as that's what he loves most.

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar

How would compulsory dog training sound? Your dog has to pass a recall test at the age of 1, say, to be off-lead. Like a driver’s licence. Owners could then choose to have professional lessons, train the dog themselves, or just accept keeping it on a lead. Tests could involve ignoring/recalling when faced with other dogs, cyclists, picnics and sheep. I know this sounds facetious but I actually mean it - it would drive a culture of dog-training and ensure that people getting dogs knew that they were expected to put in a lot of effort.

1 - How would you police it? 2 - a dog "passing a test" on a particular day means nothing in the long run. It just means it performed well at that particular moment.

That’s like saying passing a driver’s test means nothing. A driver’s licence doesn’t mean you will never have an accident. It’s a way of saying that you have learned to drive to a particular standard. It’s about managing risks. The risk of having lots of people driving vehicles is lower if they’ve all passed tests. The risk of having off-lead dogs is a lot lower if they’ve all achieved set training levels.

I think my issue with the dog control measures is that we seem to be saying that dogs pose an enormous risk to society and therefore it is proportionate to severely curtail dog activity. I don’t think keeping the 90% of dogs who would never hurt a human on-lead for their entire lives is proportionate to the risk.

I don’t know how you would police it - it could be funded by people paying to have their dogs tested. Dog wardens? How would you police dogs being on leads?

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar

Jumping up to lick faces is a nuisance but not a danger. Ditto trampling on picnics. I do agree that dog owners should take action to stop their dogs being nuisances, but there’s a difference between that and saying that dog is a nuisance therefore it’s out of control and likely to do something dangerous.

My baby was 12 months old, I had to crouch over him to protect him while the dog jumped all over my back and head, the owners just did an embarrassed laugh and said sorry and walked off. My picnic was ruined, my clothes were filthy, hair dishevelled and my baby terrified. We were actually waiting to collect my 4 yr old daughter from a birthday party at the nearby sealife centre and the other parents were concerned when they saw me as it was so obvious something had happened. This is more than a nuisance. I was also raging the time the dog jumped up and put dirty paw prints all down the from of my outift when I was on my way to a night out. That dog owner also said nothing. You may love your dog but I don't!

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar

You can’t play fetch with a lead on either, though.

You can... I mean, not huge throws, but you can play tiny fetch you can play tug.

And you can walk to somewhere where they can be offlead.

The point was more that it’s pretty hard to train a dog who is muzzled, the two main rewards would be food or a toy... they can’t have either. So eventually you’d end up with dogs offlead but muzzled, but potentially even more of them poorly trained than now

As a PP said, so much depends on the dog and the location. And there is the issue that decent owners of decently behaved dogs will end being penalised because of the incompetent ones.

I've just had two of mine out for 45 mins. In that time, the puppy didn't recall exactly once: I'd been doing retrieve work with her and another dog came into view. If I'd seen it sooner, I'd have called her in when it was further away and thus less tempting, but they must have come into the field literally the second after I'd scoped it out. I apologised as I ran up, the dog's owners were fine, and pup then recalled. My older dog, bar a spot of pulling, was very well behaved all walk.

On lead dog approaching, dogs called in and either on lead or into a sit. Person approaching looking uncertain, dogs called in and either on lead or into a sit. Toddler approaching, dogs called in and either on lead or into a sit. Ducks on the river bank, dogs on lead, steadiness training for the puppy. They have a high prey drive, but they can behave in public.

On the other hand... There is a dog of a similar breed to mine in the area. Her owner was down by the river, hanging about as she had run off yet again. She has a local rep for chasing the wildlife, and yet nobody has thought to either not let her off, or to work on her recall. It pissed me off massively, because at some point she'll kill another deer and have a other spell of infamy on social media, and there will be another outcry about off-lead dogs, and we'll all get the flack.

Drives me nuts.

That’s like saying passing a driver’s test means nothing.

IMO it's not remotely comparable. Humans don't have prey drives that mean our ears switch off and we follow thousands of years of hunting instinct. We have the ability to stop, think and make decisions in a way that dogs' don't. Dogs that follow their instincts and chase, say, deer or rabbits aren't bad dogs - they're just doing what they'e been bred to do, and it's impossible to train that out of them 100% of the time.

I don’t know how you would police it - it could be funded by people paying to have their dogs tested. Dog wardens? How would you police dogs being on leads?

We don't have a local dog warden - the nearest one is based 90 minutes drive away. You'd have to spend millions to police such a thing and even then, how do you police places like the rural Lake District or the moors? I can walk all day and not see a soul. How would anybody know my dog wasn't allowed off lead or had passed a test? Would anyone really care?

I play fetch with my dog on a long line and he looks just as happy as when he’s properly off lead. It’s almost impossible to catch an off lead dog that doesn’t want to be caught