5 month old golden retriever

[solvendie]

After much looking we are now going to be the parents of a 5 month old golden retriever. He is coming from a reputable breeder but it is delayed due to the early heart surgery he needed.

He has been in a breeder kennel environment so is relatively untrained. I’m just looking for some hints and tips on training a puppy that may be slightly delayed in their development

Is there anything I need him to grasp straight away?

I'm going to go against the grain and say that this does sound like they could be a decent breeder - they have paid for surgery on the puppy, when they could have had it put to sleep. Some breeders would keep a dog like this, but others would want to minimise the numbers of non-breeding dogs they keep and would sell/rehome the dog I am assuming at reduced price. It is probably in the dog's best interest to find a new home.

Buying a dog from a kennel environment wouldn't particularly bother me, so long as the welfare of the breeding bitches was good (ie not a 'puppy farm' type environment). People choose to take on dogs with 'disabilities' or health conditions for complex reasons, and what is right for one family is not for another. So long as the OP has thought the situation through properly, researched the heart issue, and is not just choosing this dog because of availability/price etc, then I think it is a lovely thing to do!

Hi all, really sorry for not responding - things have been hectic. We have puppy and he is lovely. We checked insurance and he is not covered for 3 years for that specific condition but will be after that (he’s had all clear from vet and apparently it is a 100% treatable condition with this op)

He was very nervous about the house for the first few days - alert to all noises. However, he has taken this in his stride and is now very comfortable. He’s never bothered with washing machine, Hoover or dishwasher. He’s fascinated by tv.

I think we’ve been very lucky as this could have been so different but I think it is down to his very fabulous and loving nature. We have spent the last few days providing love and reassurance and he has really come out of his shell.

He is great on the lead and with other dogs and people.

Thanks all for your advice

He was very nervous about the house for the first few days - alert to all noises. However, he has taken this in his stride and is now very comfortable. He’s never bothered with washing machine, Hoover or dishwasher. He’s fascinated by tv

I think we’ve been very lucky as this could have been so different but I think it is down to his very fabulous and loving nature. We have spent the last few days providing love and reassurance and he has really come out of his shell
I hate to say this, but it is way, way too soon to be making concrete judgments about his temperament.

It’ll be a few weeks at least before he properly settles in and his ‘true’ personality becomes apparent.

Maybe this is his real temperament, maybe he will be nothing but a joy for you, I certainly hope so!

But you should be open to the fact that it being such early days means his full personality won’t be fully apparent yet.
He is also just entering adolescence which brings its own set of issues.

So I wouldn’t be too relaxed just yet.

It is early days but all going well so far...........

@solvendie

Hi all, really sorry for not responding - things have been hectic. We have puppy and he is lovely. We checked insurance and he is not covered for 3 years for that specific condition but will be after that (he’s had all clear from vet and apparently it is a 100% treatable condition with this op)

He was very nervous about the house for the first few days - alert to all noises. However, he has taken this in his stride and is now very comfortable. He’s never bothered with washing machine, Hoover or dishwasher. He’s fascinated by tv.

I think we’ve been very lucky as this could have been so different but I think it is down to his very fabulous and loving nature. We have spent the last few days providing love and reassurance and he has really come out of his shell.

He is great on the lead and with other dogs and people.

Thanks all for your advice

Glad to hear this. You've done an amazing thing, giving a loving home to a dog who might have not otherwise had one. Take things slowly. Reinforce all training. And keep reinforcing. And make sure all the family members do so. Good luck x

I am glad it’s going well so far, I hope it continues

Great update OP

Ugh so depressing that people are so willing to support shitty breeders producing unhealthy dogs housed in unsuitable environments simply so that they can make money.

Why would you want to support backyard breeders/puppy farmers? You are just adding to the misery by encouraging this breeder to produce more unhealthy pups in unsuitable environments.

If you end up with a nice pup it's pure luck, but 5 months in a kennel is a shitty start for any dog and likely to predispose to behaviour problems

Absolutely not supporting shitty breeders. But we are where we are with this dog abs either he gets consigned to the scrap heap or we support OP in making a new life for him.
Stories like this are obv salutary tales and need telling tho to discourage people froM using those shitty breeders. Let's support OP tho for now

@shallIswim

Absolutely not supporting shitty breeders. But we are where we are with this dog abs either he gets consigned to the scrap heap or we support OP in making a new life for him. Stories like this are obv salutary tales and need telling tho to discourage people froM using those shitty breeders. Let's support OP tho for now

I haven't been unsupportive, but I have questioned the choices because those choices will impact on the likelihood of this shitty breeder producing more dogs. Choices like this mean that the cycle of shitty breeding continues and it's important to recognise this. The Op's choices and the choices of others who put their own desires over dog welfare, directly finance backyard breeders and crap dog welfare.

I'm also not sure what support the OP actually wants/needs as she's ignored all the sensible advice not to buy the pup and hasn't asked for further advice since rehoming him. So if by 'support' you mean that we should all affirm OP's irresponsible puppy-buying choices then sorry but no, you don't get to dictate that.

I understand all of that and that you would want this homing to be a success. But I suppose I'm asking (perhaps naively) what would happen to the dog I'd OP didn't go through with the homing? Some have suggested not taking him on.

I really do understand the economics and cycle of demand which perpetuates bad practice. But in this single case, what about the dog in the centre of it?

@shallIswim

I understand all of that and that you would want this homing to be a success. But I suppose I'm asking (perhaps naively) what would happen to the dog I'd OP didn't go through with the homing? Some have suggested not taking him on.

I really do understand the economics and cycle of demand which perpetuates bad practice. But in this single case, what about the dog in the centre of it?

But the excuse of what about the poor dog in the centre of it will always happen . If the shitty breeders couldn’t ever sell the poor animal and ended up having to give it to a rescue or paying to keep it then that would be the lesson .

I really do understand the economics and cycle of demand which perpetuates bad practice. But in this single case, what about the dog in the centre of it?
That’s a terrible argument!

Just think of all the people, and there will be many, who go to see a puppy and find it in shitty conditions.
What do they tend to do?

They feel terrible and buy it to ‘rescue’ it and give it a lovely life.

What happens next?
The BYB/Dealer/farmer has their money and there is no incentive to stop breeding/dealing puppies.
You rescue one pup, but condemn many more to the same ill treatment.

I don’t remember a single person in this thread speaking out in support of buying this dog.

No one has met the breeder granted, but nothing the OP has said suggests a good breeder.

I really don't get this board sometimes.

Anyone breeding their pet as a one-off: AVOID! Evil BYB.
Breeder who kennels a dog (we don't know from OP's post if this was all the time, or overnight, or what experiences the dog had outside the kennels, or what the system was at all), but keeps the dog and shells out for heart surgery rather than PTS: AVOID! Evil person.

And obviously we want to avoid puppy farms, so who are we allowed to buy from? A small-scale experienced breeder will usually have 3-5 bitches. Even with that number, it's not insane to kennel some of the dogs some of the time, for all sorts of reasons. Personally, I'd rather see dogs comfortably kennelled for 2 hours rather than crated, and the actual difference between being left overnight in warm, dry, secure kennels in earshot (tech or otherwise) of the owner, or being left shut in the utility room is negligible. The dogs might even prefer the kennels, if the utility room has no outside access and the kennel has a good run.

I know dogs who spend parts of their lives in kennels. They are happy, confident and healthy. Kennels can be terrible, but the same can be said of crates. It all depends on how they are used, and in this case it wasn't clear from OP's posts.

OP said the dog was really nervous of normal household noises at first. Which makes it sound like the dog had never set foot in a house...

I would not expect a breeder with just 3 - 5 dogs to be using kennels.
Why would you?
Most dogs now are intended to live as pets and even a lot of working sheepdogs/security dogs/gundogs live in the house as pets when not working.

The only time I would expect kennels, best case scenario, would be for outdoor working dogs.
Worst case scenario I would think large commercial kennels/puppy farm.

I was one of the people on here (who actually has a GR and has had several before) who advised OP not to get this dog and I am a bit disappointed she ignore everyone and got it anyway
But she did so I have to hope for the sake of the dog and her family that it doesn’t end in heartbreak. I genuinely hope all us doomongers were wrong

I’m not avoiding this thread - I just have limited time. The breeder is KC registered With over 50 years of family breeding history and great reviews and recommendations. We saw that the puppy was well cared for and happy. I took the advice of people here and checked out insurance, issues with socialisation, etc. Before opting to go ahead. The breeder chose to provide the operation for the puppy instead of PTS.

We had a lot of contact with the breeder/viewing puppy prior to making our decision.

I’ve had puppy at our own vet this morning and they have said his heard is very strong - no signs of any murmur - so all good.

He wasn’t used to being in the house but has settled very well with no issues.

I’m really pleased we opted to go ahead and couldn’t be happier with the puppy

@solvendie No need to defend yourself against random people of the internet who have no knowledge about your breeder or the steps you have taken to make a responsible decision. You asked a reasonable question which wasn't actually answered by the majority. I'd focus on basics, like any puppy, take it slow and be consistent. He sounds like he's being good on the lead, but keep a close eye on this as he's probably missed out on lots of outside socialisation so is likely to be behind other pups his age. Don't be afraid to get a trainer or behaviourist sooner rather than later if you feel you need to.

I'm an experienced dog owner, I wouldn't necessarily have run a mile based on your original post. There's nothing wrong with breeding dogs in kennels, provided they are clean, warm etc and the pups have plenty of interaction. I also wouldn't necessarily have assumed that a pup alert to household noises has never been in a house before, it's a completely new environment, your house isn't the breeders house. Most puppies are alert when they're first brought home. The breeder was also either responsible enough to have insurance to cover the pup's op, or shelled out the money to pay for it. Both responsible things to do.

It sounds like he's settling in well, yes, he'll probably be a bit more bolshy as he becomes a teenager but that's normal puppy behaviour! Enjoy him and good luck

Which makes it sound like the dog had never set foot in a house
Or not that often, anyway. Yes, there is time for issues to emerge, but if the dog is settling well, that implies that it's temperamentally sound enough to handle change. Which implies good breeding or decent socialisation or both.

And yes, some breeders (and other owners) with 3-5 dogs use kennels, some of the time. You have workmen in and want 5 large dogs secured, and not to have to worry about them getting past a gate left open or tripping someone up. You have a bitch in heat who needs a break from the other dogs. You have a dog with an injury who needs a space to rest. You have a litter of puppies and the kennel gives them a bit more freedom than the whelping box in the kitchen, as well as fresh air without the worry of them finding stones and slugs to eat, so they go out there for a few hours a day.

I know quite a few dogs who move between house and kennels, depending - gundogs and farm dogs.

And yes, kennels can mean puppy farm, but they don't have to. In this case, puppy farm seems unlikely. The breeder chose to have the puppy operated on (££) and to keep and feed the puppy for an extra 3 months (££), so I doubt there was much if any profit left after that.

I'm not saying this breeder is a saint, but they are unlikely to be the devil.

OP, I hope everything continues to go well and you and pup have many happy years together.

A shitty breeder would not have told the OP that the dog had had surgery and sold it on regardless.

Many breeders keep dogs for 5 to 6 months to see if they are up to showing and if not then sell them as pet dogs. Not dodgy breeders.

Many dogs coming into a new home would find the new home daunting

Good luck OP and I hope you enjoy many happy years with your goldie

I once had a 10 month old dog from a breeder that had held him back for health reasons. I didn't pay for him, the trade off being I gave him a family home but I did so knowing he had health issues that I would need to manage (seizures).

I would do it again in a heartbeat but the key to the success was that this breeder had spent time training him. I suspect she did an even better job at it than most pet owners would have done, tbh (including me). He came to me as a behaviourally sound, well trained and confident young dog that needed no more input from me than just gently getting him used to my ways.

I hope yours is the same, and I can't see a reason why he shouldn't be.

I know quite a few dogs who move between house and kennels, depending - gundogs and farm dogs.

Agree. I think it can sometimes be tempting to think the way we tend to keep pets here in the UK is the best and/or only way to keep a dog happy and healthy. Millions of dogs around the world are kept as pets or workers using very different practices and I suspect that as many are happier for it, as are are less happy than the typical well loved UK dog.

@shallIswim

I understand all of that and that you would want this homing to be a success. But I suppose I'm asking (perhaps naively) what would happen to the dog I'd OP didn't go through with the homing? Some have suggested not taking him on.

I really do understand the economics and cycle of demand which perpetuates bad practice. But in this single case, what about the dog in the centre of it?

One would assume that the 'responsible breeder' would give him a lifelong home.

@SirSniffsAlot

I know quite a few dogs who move between house and kennels, depending - gundogs and farm dogs.

Agree. I think it can sometimes be tempting to think the way we tend to keep pets here in the UK is the best and/or only way to keep a dog happy and healthy. Millions of dogs around the world are kept as pets or workers using very different practices and I suspect that as many are happier for it, as are are less happy than the typical well loved UK dog.

I would absolutely agree with that. However that is not the issue here.

A 5 month old golden retriever who is scared of normal household activities/noises is not one that has been properly socialised/habituated to a household

Or is one that has an underlying anxiety as part of its temperament.

Neither indicate responsible breeding.
A bit like KC registration

@Veterinari OP says he was nervous and alert to household sounds for the first few days but is now comfortable and not bothered by hoover, washing machine etc. Whose puppy isn't nervous in a new house for the first few days?? Sounds perfectly normal to me!