AIBU to think if someone tells you "my dog's nervous of other dogs", you listen?

[Clymene]

My dog is nervous of other dogs. I'm working really hard with him on his reactivity, and we try and walk where we don't see other people/dogs. But inevitably (lockdown), places are a lot busier than normal so we go places where there is a wide path and plenty of room for us to get off it and we can see people coming from a distance.

Today, we were having a nice potter in some quiet woods and I see a woman approaching with a dog on a flexible lead. As she gets nearer, I take my dog (who is on a short fixed lead) several meters off the path, into the trees and say 'my dog is nervous of other dogs, so we'll just wait here until you pass'. I'm watching her and her dog and trying to distract mine with bits of ham.

I expected her to say okay or something and walk past. But no, she decides to stop, smiling at me and extend her dog's lead so it's getting closer and closer. She laughs and says 'oh she's so friendly - she's going to crawl over to you on her belly'.

My dog is getting super tense at this point and is losing focus on me.

So I had to say firmly 'Please take your dog away. My dog doesn't like other dogs' and she huffily goes 'Oh! Okay then'. and pulls her dog away and disappears off into the distance.

Is there anything else I could have/should have done? How much clearer could I have been?

And I agree, people shouldn't be shrieking - a simple, sorry my dog is nervous of other dogs would be fine.

And I live in a built up town, so limited large field available.

The one field we have is also heavily populated with people doing press ups and lunges since lockdown which just adds to the confusion frankly.

If the dog was crawling along on its belly it might have been a sign of fear or uncertainty so it may have been much better at reading your dog's discomfort than its owner. In any case if someone said to me that their dog was nervous I'd keep the lead short and walk widely and briskly by because 1. I wouldn't want to scare the other dog and 2. I wouldn't want my dog to be nipped in a scare reaction. It's a shame some people can't read their dog's signals or even other people's when it's spelt out! I really think in order to have a dog people should just do a basic 'reading the signs' course. I've taught my boys some of the basics about dog body language since they were little.

@AlwaysLatte

If the dog was crawling along on its belly it might have been a sign of fear or uncertainty so it may have been much better at reading your dog's discomfort than its owner. In any case if someone said to me that their dog was nervous I'd keep the lead short and walk widely and briskly by because 1. I wouldn't want to scare the other dog and 2. I wouldn't want my dog to be nipped in a scare reaction. It's a shame some people can't read their dog's signals or even other people's when it's spelt out! I really think in order to have a dog people should just do a basic 'reading the signs' course. I've taught my boys some of the basics about dog body language since they were little.

I do think her dog was reading my dog quite well and yes, totally agree that people aren't always great at reading dog body language.

@Tulipvase - another really good group/person to follow on Facebook is Dog decoder. They have lots of really helpful charts explaining dog body language. Learning to read it is really important- especially if you have children

Also, it makes me so angry when people can't get their dogs back when they call them. They shouldn't then be off the lead. Last summer my son (9 then) was swimming in the river nearby and two big labradoodles went rushing into the river amongst the kids and for a scary second one of them was on my son's back and he got pushed under the water. The owner was just a dot in the distance yelling and it was totally futile. Luckily the dog bounded out again and my son was ok but he had a nasty scratch on his back and was obviously upset.

@MrsBobDylan

Their dogs are off lead too and mine wander over. It's worked fine for the last four years but there has been a noticeable difference in people's reactions since lock down.

If they had their dog on a lead I wouldn't allow mine to approach because it is accepted that an off lead dog will stress an in lead dog out.

It means that huge parts of the walking area is taken up by nervous off lead dogs and their nervous owners and basically is getting to the point where my dogs have to stay mostly in a lead - how is that fair?

I have a collie who is fabulous off lead but he doesnt really like other dogs hounding him. A quick sniff fair enough, but he doesn't like them trying to play or getting in his face. If you can't call your dog back from others, on lead or off lead then yours should be kept under better control

That does sound annoying but maybe 'my dog's nervous of other dogs' doesn't quite say 'please don't let your dog approach mine' in the way you think it does? Maybe start with that next time - she might have thought that if her dog was being submissive and gentle then it was ok

I think this is good advice. My old girl only became nervous after she was attacked by an off lead dog last year. I always put myself between her and a curious dog but I do think other owners think that as their dog is friendly, my dog will realise that and be ok so I think being explicit is best.

I get exactly the same with our rescue dog. He is very reactive and will bite another dog if it approaches him. I always keep him on the lead and try to walk in quiet places. But I've lost count the number of times owners say 'well my dog is friendly' but the problem is mine isn't!!!!

I have this with my elderly dog. She now has a high vis jacket with I NEED SPACE on it. It does work with most people, there are still some who let their dog approach and give me the eye roll when I ask them to call their dog away, but it's definitely less than before.

Thank you @Clymene. I’m compiling a list!

It's not you. You are doing all the right things. My dog was badly bitten in a scenario just like this. The 'friendly ' dog approached him, my (on lear) dog whined and then the loose dog launched a full on attack on him taking a huge chunk out of his leg that took 2 x operations to fix. Don't be afraid to be forceful with people. Much better to fall out with other walkers than have a dog fight on your hands (which you may well end up in the middle of).

I get the same. Dog on lead, move to the side or pick her up, ask for the other dogs to be called away. Still get people either who can't control their dogs and they won't go back, or who say their dog is friendly.
Problem is my dog has ended up in fights with off lead and uncontrolled dogs, More than once, so to her it means danger and she reacts accordingly.
She's not like it with dogs she knows, lives with another dog, happy to play and socialise with friends and family members dogs, and there's 2 dogs we meet regularly that she's got to know carefully and now they do greet each other and play (with mine and the other owners blessings) she used to be a dog that greeted and played with other off lead dogs when they approached, until she was set on a couple of times when she was in an area where dogs should be on leads and others weren't.
That's what's caused the issue. I'm not going to muzzle get either because it's not fair to remove her ability to defend herself against an uncontrolled dog who shouldn't be approaching. If she'd have been muzzled those times she'd have been totally defenceless. She's on the lead now unless I can see there's no one about for a good distance and I get her as out of the way as I can if other dogs approach.
That's all I can do, I've been jumped on by other dogs when holding her, and the owners have laughed.
Unfortunately people who don't want to listen won't, as someone else said, they always think they know better.
I'd agree with adjusting what you say rather than just the dog is nervous. I say "Please keep your dog away, mine can be funny with other dogs" or similar.
Unfortunately some people are idiots, and some of those idiots own dogs.

If a dog comes bounding over, I say 'please call your dog" and in response to 'my dog is friendly', I say 'well mine isn't!'

I will be more assertive next time and say "my dog doesn't like other dogs' rather than he's nervous.

Like a PP, he's fine with dogs he knows, he goes to doggy daycare and has a best friend there. it's just dogs he doesn't know.

I can't wait until all these new lockdown dog owners go back to work and I can have my fields and woods back.

I have an hour booked at the agility field this weekend - can't wait!

There’s nothing wrong with saying he’s nervous btw, I’d understand you fine.

But it does leave scope for people without common sense to think, well that’s ok, my dog is nice it’ll be fine or just approach slower... and for really ignorant people to think, well I don’t care, that’s not my problem.

I always found blunt was easier, truthfully I usually just shouted - he’s not good with dogs and kept the other stuff for ones who ignored that.

Their dogs are off lead too and mine wander over. It's worked fine for the last four years but there has been a noticeable difference in people's reactions since lock down
This fucks me off so much

My dog is off lead.
She will not approach other dogs.
We had a lovely walk today where we saw (and walked past) around 5 other dogs.

I cannot abide ignorant, selfish people who let their dogs approach mine, who will walk away from them because she doesn’t want to interact with them, said dogs will then follow her with their ignorant owners smiling indulgently; ‘aww he/she’s so friendly’ or some other bollocks, my dog will then growl and/or snap at them cue much indignant ‘you should have socialised that/that needs to be muzzled’ etc etc.

Your dogs should not ‘wander over’ to strange dogs.
Just because they off lead does not mean they want to interact with you!

And OP, I tell people mine is aggressive and may bite.

I agree. Mine is off lead and I can keep him away from other dogs unless they show a real interest in him. Bounding over from 200m away is not cool. I don’t wander over to random strangers and I find it rude if that happens to my dog especially as you can sometimes see the shock on him (tail and bum down, spinning to see what’s going on - kind of collecting himself) (probably like I would if some random ran over to me - although I would probably be more the reactive type and shout at them for being so flipping rude). He’s not reactive in the slightest either.

I love my dog playing with other dogs, I really do. But chat to the owners FIRST or better still get a brilliant daycare place that matches them up with dogs with the right play style
But walks are our time. I want him to see me as his super fun playmate too! And on top of all that it makes training him to not sprint after a rabbit super hard when he’s all amped up.

My girl was in a rescue with 800 other dogs before I ultimately got her so well socialised but really took against GSDs and Huskies on walks. As a former stray she’s never off the lead. Before Christmas a “friendly” off lead dog got too close for her comfort and she low growled. The dog launched for her. I got it’s jaw off off her with superficial wounds to her but stitches for me. Since then she won’t go near that place which is a lovely lake walk leading to a beach. She’s got stage 4 cancer and I resent that her already shrinking world has been made smaller by an irresponsible dog owner

@BigWolfLittleWolf

Their dogs are off lead too and mine wander over. It's worked fine for the last four years but there has been a noticeable difference in people's reactions since lock down This fucks me off so much

My dog is off lead.
She will not approach other dogs.
We had a lovely walk today where we saw (and walked past) around 5 other dogs.

I cannot abide ignorant, selfish people who let their dogs approach mine, who will walk away from them because she doesn’t want to interact with them, said dogs will then follow her with their ignorant owners smiling indulgently; ‘aww he/she’s so friendly’ or some other bollocks, my dog will then growl and/or snap at them cue much indignant ‘you should have socialised that/that needs to be muzzled’ etc etc.

Your dogs should not ‘wander over’ to strange dogs.
Just because they off lead does not mean they want to interact with you!

And OP, I tell people mine is aggressive and may bite.

100% agree

If your dog is a biter and is aggressive , you muzzle it surely? Because if it managed to slip it’s lead or another dog had slipped its lead and got close enough to be bitten, it would be put down. The muzzle is there as much for your dogs benefit as others.

I think you are sending your dog signals by holding it back off the path and being on edge, you are telling it that’s it’s right to be afraid. Stick a muzzle on (for your own peace of mind) and next time don’t react when you see a dog coming towards you. Just walk on by.

@BigWolfLittleWolf

Their dogs are off lead too and mine wander over. It's worked fine for the last four years but there has been a noticeable difference in people's reactions since lock down This fucks me off so much

My dog is off lead.
She will not approach other dogs.
We had a lovely walk today where we saw (and walked past) around 5 other dogs.

I cannot abide ignorant, selfish people who let their dogs approach mine, who will walk away from them because she doesn’t want to interact with them, said dogs will then follow her with their ignorant owners smiling indulgently; ‘aww he/she’s so friendly’ or some other bollocks, my dog will then growl and/or snap at them cue much indignant ‘you should have socialised that/that needs to be muzzled’ etc etc.

Your dogs should not ‘wander over’ to strange dogs.
Just because they off lead does not mean they want to interact with you!

And OP, I tell people mine is aggressive and may bite.

Generally the etiquette is that, if the dog is off lead, it's assumed to be friendly.

You need to give people some sort of signal that your dog isn't as friendly as it might be. Preferably a big yellow coat that says something like "keep dogs away", and a "can you keep your dog away please" shouted to anyone who evidently can't read the coat from that distance.

It's your job to advocate for your dog's needs. Mine doesn't much like being stroked by strange humans, so he wears a lead slip that says "ask before stroking" so that people know. When he's off lead it's less concerning as he can choose to move away himself, but I still tell people in the park who look keen to say hello (lots of dog-starved students and 20-somethings around here!) that he's just not keen.

You can't expect people to be psychic, you really can't.

No, but you still shouldn't let your off lead dog wander over to anyone or anything else. If you can't control that then your dog shouldn't be off lead.

@Doggitydog

If your dog is a biter and is aggressive , you muzzle it surely? Because if it managed to slip it’s lead or another dog had slipped its lead and got close enough to be bitten, it would be put down. The muzzle is there as much for your dogs benefit as others.

I think you are sending your dog signals by holding it back off the path and being on edge, you are telling it that’s it’s right to be afraid. Stick a muzzle on (for your own peace of mind) and next time don’t react when you see a dog coming towards you. Just walk on by.

Dogs don't get put down if they bite another dog. And my dog isn't aggressive, he's nervous. I'm perfectly happy with the way my behaviourist and I are dealing with this, thanks.

Generally the etiquette is that, if the dog is off lead, it's assumed to be friendly
What do you define as ‘friendly’ exactly?
I think sometimes people definition of ‘friendly’ is very different to mine.
My dog doesn’t approach others and has never bitten anybody, nor lunged at anyone nor challenged another dog to a fight.
A lot of people seem to think ‘friendly’ means my dog should be happy about another dog racing over to her, ignoring her walking away from them, jumping all over her and around her.
I disagree.

You need to give people some sort of signal that your dog isn't as friendly as it might be. Preferably a big yellow coat that says something like "keep dogs away", and a "can you keep your dog away please" shouted to anyone who evidently can't read the coat from that distance
Is walking off lead at close heel on a path on seeing a dog ahead of us not obvious enough?
What about minding her own business being 12 feet (or more!) away?
How about actively walking/running away from the dog that has come (from considerable distance away) to harass her?
The fact she’s off lead seems to mean for some ignorant people that it’s okay for their dogs to come running over and worse, follow her.
It isnt.
And she’s just expected to tolerate it because anything else isn’t ‘friendly’

It's your job to advocate for your dog's needs
I do....

You can't expect people to be psychic, you really can't
I expect people to be reasonable and sensible.

How is it that the etiquette is all dogs are free for all unless told otherwise. Why can’t it be that no dog is available unless told otherwise? Surely that’s safer for everyone?

It’s ridiculous to suggest that a nervous dog should be muzzled. The reason it escalates to bites is simply because it’s spent walk after walk being hounded by random strangers and dogs.

Surely a better way to ensure everyone enjoys the space is just teaching your dog to “ask” to go and play with another dog or call it back to you, put on the lead, ask dog owner if okay. If yes great, if not, walk on.

I don't understand why some people just don't listen. I'm already walking my foster in the middle of the night to avoid dogs. I practically had to flee down a pitch black hill last night because a drunken fool and his off lead dog kept following me and apparently couldn't understand me yelling- " STOP! MY DOG HATES DOGS, WE'RE LEAVING, WAIT THERE PLEASE."

She was a complete idiot. You were polite, you took your dog out of the way. What was she trying to prove? That her dog would miraculously charm yours? Idiot!