To worm or Not?

[PaolaNeri]

We have just taken on a dog from someone who needed to rehome her, and today I had booked her in to see the vet for jabs and a thorough check up.

I had been told he was an "old school" vet, came highly recommended and didn't suggest or recommend things unless for good reason. He was very thorough, gave some probiotics for her breath and advised on oral care. After he had wormed her, I asked about flea treatment. He told me she didn't have fleas and it was unnecessary to put chemicals on a dog and to just check her regularly and treat if necessary. He also had an opinion on spaying (not to) but it was my choice.

Can you please advise what you do regarding flea treatment and what you use? Many thanks.

I'd do the flea treatment regardless. I use Milbemax which I get from the vets.

As for spaying, there's a lot of pros and cons. It's quite a big operation( unlike castration), and can cause weight gain and incontinence. But of course can remove the chance of various cancers etc

I would flea and worm treat regardless. I get mine from the vets and he's treated every three months - same with my cats. You really don't want a flea infestation - they are a pain in the arse to get rid of!

I would always spay bitches. It can cause urinary incontinence in some (but not all) and weight gain - but the latter is easily solved by a change in diet and an increase in exercise. Spaying means you don't have to worry about pyometra (the risk increases with each season) and several cancers. Much safer as well, as you won't be targeted by entire males - nor do you have to deal with not walking for several weeks each season.

I’d always worm but I don’t routinely flea treat tbh...

I do it seasonally more than anything, so when it starts getting warmer. Oh and when there’s any new arrivals.

But that’s mostly because I live somewhere that doesn’t tend to be as bad for fleas, if I lived in a city or further south I’d do it regularly.

I worm count and only use wormers if they return a postitive result. I have had to worm one dog once but the others have never had worms. The joy of wormcounts is that you know the type of worm and can treat accordingly and not have to over treat the dog.

I comb daily to check for fleas - have not had fleas on any dogs for over 16 years.

As a society we do need to think carefully about the impact of over use of medicines when not needed. Parasites build up resisitance and we need stronger and stronger chemicals. The chemicals wreck the wildlife. Of course if needed use them but just using them in a just in case scenario to me is stupid. The only people that benefit are the drugs company.

For example my 16 year old dog could have been wormed and received flea treament every month for the last 16 years. He did not need any of those chemicals at all ever!

Spaying does have many medical advantages for bitches but no need to rush to get it done depends on the age of your bitch and her reaction to being in season. For some bitches being in season is a hard time and phantom pregnacies are difficult for them.

I treat for worms, fleas and ticks as the monthly tablet does all three.

I agree with polly.

Thank you everyone for your replies and advice.

Interesting @PollyRoulson, the Vet said the same thing about the drugs companies.

She has already had 2 litters and 2 c sections (she is 4 years) so the spaying advice is appreciated.

Totally agree with Polly. Absolutely and completely unnecessary to treat for fleas unless yo have fleas. The less chemicals you put on your pets, the better for them and you.

I'm a veterinary nurse and I agree with the vet. There is no need to treat for fleas if she doesn't have fleas. If you have a cat in the household that is a different matter.

I rescued a dog from a practice and had him for 12 years. I had to treat him for fleas on one occasion in all that time and that was because he discovered a hedgehog and he was plastered in the things.
Cats are the worst vectors for fleas. Work four times a year and use veterinary quality wormers.
The chemicals in spot ons are in our watercourses now and are causing environmental problems. A lot of practices supply them monthly as part of a package deal. That doesn't mean they should be used though.

Vet nurse here too , i agree with vets opinion re flea treatment for dog.
I have had 4 dogs over the last 27 years and used flea treatment once around 24 years ago , i'm not keen on using unnecessary chemicals, i feel the same about headlice treatment on my kids .
If you have a cat in the house though then you do tend to have to use flea products regularly .
I would never keep an unspayed bitch , i think most vets would disagree with his opinion on that.
Pyometra is not nice .

I’m reading with interest. I have three cats and a dog in the house. In the countryside with no neighbours and I’ve never seen a flea.

I worry about using too many chemicals so I treat at less than half the rate recommended for spot on flea / tick and worm two or three times a year.

We’re in Portugal and ticks are common, but fleas don’t seem to be a problem for us. We don’t have a cold season as such though, so I don’t stop treatment in the winter like I used to in the U.K.

Would the vets here recommend treating them less than I am now? I really hate putting those damn chemicals on them.

I do give the dog heart worm treatment every two months on top of the other things.

They’re all outdoor animals by the way. The cats come and go as they please and the doors are always open from spring through to autumn so the dog is in and out all day too. We have sheep and goats passing by the house regularly with the shepherd so our pets do pick up ticks.

I agree with Polly too.
I only worm if there are any present, same with fleas. We’ve rarely had fleas in over 35 years of multiple dogs & then only when we had cats.
I also agree with the vet re spaying but I show & under KC rules you can’t exhibit a neutered dog or bitch unless you have proof that it was done for medical reasons. Even if you decide to neuter it shouldn’t be done until the dog or bitch is through adolescence & the growth plates have closed.. many vets want to do it too young which has health implications.

I only worm if there are any present, same with fleas
I hope you are using a worm count to confirm if there are any present as dogs can carry impressive worm burdens with no symptoms whatsoever.

I show & under KC rules you can’t exhibit a neutered dog or bitch unless you have proof that it was done for medical reasons
More evidence of how the Kennel Club doesn’t care for the welfare of dogs..
WTAF.
Granted there is evidence to suggest neutering isn’t great in males as it can worsen nervousness and yes, there are studies to suggest an increased risk of certain cancers in certain breeds when neutered before maturity but entire females are at a very high risk of pyometra and the risk increases with age.
Pyometra isn’t a mild disease and it isn’t a rare disease.
It is life threatening and common in entire females.
Males I get but to choose not spay a female is borderline neglectful.

I have 3 cats and 2 dogs and only ever flea if there is evidence any of them have fleas and tbh it's happened very very rarely.

With worms, I most recently sent a poo sample away for the dogs to check and no worms present so no need to worm. I see no point in treating for something they don't have either flea or worm.

Following this with interest. We’re getting a puppy in a few weeks but live rurally and DH is concerned about unnecessary chemicals getting in our ponds/water if we regularly worm/flea treat. How do you do a worm count? Are there kits that you send off?

@YesItsAPeacock

I’m reading with interest. I have three cats and a dog in the house. In the countryside with no neighbours and I’ve never seen a flea.

I worry about using too many chemicals so I treat at less than half the rate recommended for spot on flea / tick and worm two or three times a year.

We’re in Portugal and ticks are common, but fleas don’t seem to be a problem for us. We don’t have a cold season as such though, so I don’t stop treatment in the winter like I used to in the U.K.

Would the vets here recommend treating them less than I am now? I really hate putting those damn chemicals on them.

I do give the dog heart worm treatment every two months on top of the other things.

Hi, from what we are taught re flea treatments , it seems pretty pointless to do intermittent doses due to the flea life cycle , if you choose to do it you need to do a consistent dose ie every 4 weeks / 12months for optimum efficacy. Cats can often carry quite a flea burden without you realising , more so if they are outside a lot , they are a lot more tolerant of fleas than a dog , who will definitely let you know that something is causing them irritation ! I think most vets sell a large amount of flea /worm products ,i wouldn't ever consider anything other than a prescription only medicine -POM for this .Apart from others , ie supermarket own brand being pretty useless they do tend to be the more likely ones to cause a reaction . It is a nightmare when you have a flea infestation , can take 3 -6 months to conquer it ,hence the wide scale usage / purchasing, clients are often horrified to have a flea problem. So as i said i would probably use it on a cat / multi cat house ,but not my dogs unless i was alerted . That said i do trust the products we sell ,it is very , very rare that we see an adverse reaction and they do work when there are fleas ,i just prefer not to use something on my dogs when there are no fleas present.

Our vet gives my 5mth old pup a monthly wormer. She ears slugs and snails, we can't always get to her if she's out and it's dark in the garden at night for a pee, however hard we've tried!
Just thinking about the general consensus on here. Is that too much??

@BettySweaty

Our vet gives my 5mth old pup a monthly wormer. She ears slugs and snails, we can't always get to her if she's out and it's dark in the garden at night for a pee, however hard we've tried! Just thinking about the general consensus on here. Is that too much??

Wormer will be covering lungworm which needs a monthly dose .

Males I get but to choose not spay a female is borderline neglectful

So where in future are you going to get any dog, puppy or rescued, if all females are spayed so as not to be neglectful?
With your theory, sounds like you want dogs to become extinct.

So where in future are you going to get any dog, puppy or rescued, if all females are spayed so as not to be neglectful?

With your theory, sounds like you want dogs to become extinct
No.
I expect a responsible owner to understand that an entire female is at risk for pyometra and the risk increases with age.
I’d expect a responsible owner to have any female dogs not used for breeding spayed and any breeding females to be spayed after their last litter.
The KC ruling is irresponsible and plain ridiculous.

But most breeders & exhibitors do get older bitches spayed, as I do, & don’t show the oldies
Only had one case of pyrometra in over fifty years of dog keeping.. They are in the veteran class once turned seven & can no longer have litters registered at that age, or after three litters.

Wormers do not prevent worms. They treat the worms IF your dog has worms.

wormcount kits HERE just send a small poo sample of to be tested for ALL Worms results are back very quickly by email fab service

My dogs have never had fleas as I use flea treatment. It's far better to prevent rather than cure. Once your dog has fleas they will be in your house. There are plenty of flea treatments out there. As for worming I worm mine regularly.

Hats off to those of you doing worm egg counts, that's great!

My general recommendation would be to spay a bitch not intended for breeding (or a breeding bitch once she has finished breeding) unless there is a contraindication. As for the flea treatments, my advice would depend on your dog/circumstances. Regular and meticulous checking for fleas is great in theory, but not everyone has the eyesight/skills/dedication to do this and it is much easier to spot fleas/flea dirt on a light coated whippet than a shaggy black dog that you can barely part the hair on. Lots of people just don't seem to realise their pets have fleas! It can be simpler to prevent a flea problem than sort one out.

Having said that, I completely agree with Polly re: environmental concerns of overuse of insecticides and think that these drugs need to be used more responsibly. Problem is we don't know how much damage they are doing. With my own dog (black and very shaggy), I tend to treat during the summer months, mainly because I sometimes take him into work and also helps with ticks. I use an oral POM product because he sometimes goes in water. 'Pet health clubs' are my 'pet hate' as they promote over treatment.

Different advice for cats, I think you need to flea treat them if they are coming in the house. Also would recommend routine worming of puppies.