Dog bite

[Whitepots]

I have a lively one year old dog. He has always been very sociable with other dogs. In fact, too much so really, and recall is still a work in progress though definitely improving. However, in recent weeks we've had some negative interactions with other male dogs. No contact but lots of barking and lunging too if he's on the lead.

I understand that this is not unusual at his age and that neutering should help with this, and he's booked in in the next few weeks.

As a result I have been really careful with him around other dogs, and am keeping to on lead walks, at least until he is neutered and then the plan is to work more on recall.

We were having a lovely lead walk today. He was walking well and responsive and I was just thinking that perhaps we were beginning to turn the adolescent corner.

Unfortunately, shortly after that we met an off lead male dog. My dog growled a bit and I tried to walk him on. The other dog didn't take the hint. The next thing I knew my dog was biting my calf. He intended to bite, there was pressure and he held. He has broken the skin. I don't know if he intended to bite me or if it was a redirected bite.

He's very much 'my' dog, so it is all the more extraordinary that he did it to me. That said I would feel far worse if he did it to anyone else.

For full context, he has bitten once before, which resulted in a vet check the following day and being diagnosed with a joint problem and a course of anti-inflammatories/painkillers.

We will obviously proceed with the neutering, but I have to admit that I am feeling quite shaken and unsure. I'm devoted to him but I have DC and don't want to be reckless either.

I would be wanting a vet check again and a referral to a behaviourist rather than neutering.

In fact my vet say they wouldn't neuter if any fear aggression at people or dogs until the behaviour had been addressed as it could make it worse.

I don't have much advice about where you go now with your ddog. But have you been seen by anyone? I was in the walk in centre on Friday with a dog bite, it was only small but they told me pretty much all bites that pierce the skin get infected. Sure enough I'm now feeling utterly vile with an infection, waiting for my antibiotics to kick in.

Sending you a hug, it must have been an awful shock.

Thanks Biteyshark. In fact it was the trainer/behaviourist who advised doing it now based on the few earlier incidents, to prevent it becoming ingrained behaviour. I will contact them again as you suggest.

NotQuiteUsual - I'm so sorry to hear about your bite? How did that happen? Hopefully the antibiotics will kick in quickly.

@Whitepots

Thanks Biteyshark. In fact it was the trainer/behaviourist who advised doing it now based on the few earlier incidents, to prevent it becoming ingrained behaviour. I will contact them again as you suggest.

I am not sure how regulated canine behaviourists are so in this situation I would be asking my vet for a recommendation.

I would look for another behaviourist. If this behaviour is fear then neutering could escalate it.
Keep him away from other dogs for now. Hire a safe space if you have to. Avoid his triggers.

NO qualified behaviourist would be recommending neuturing in this situation.

(I can not believe the rubbish people on Mumsnet are being spouted from so called behaviourists - it is scary)

First your behavourist would recommend a vet check - if they dont walk away! (Sometimes the fear is too much for this but this would be agreed by the vet and the behaviourist)

Management is the second step so muzzle train your dog. Search Chirag Patel for help with this.

Bringing down stress is vital before any behaviour plan or behaviour modification can take place and methods would be discussed for this. It may include no walks for several days or walks where it is quaranteed you will not have any dog interaction at all.

You say he has bitten before? what was the context

Also is he still on painkillers for his joint pain or receiving treatment for that?

Please do not neuter your dog but ask your vet for a referral to a qualified behaviourist asap

Good luck to you both

When DDog was in his most reactive phase, I was on the receiving end of a few redirected bites. He sank his teeth in and drew blood. It had nothing to do with the fact it was me - on one occasion he sank his teeth into a bag for life that I happened to be holding. He was just in such a terrified frenzy that he bit the nearest thing to him.

Over time, I initially learned to dodge his teeth (he was being walked on an ultra short lead around his triggers, and then I perfected a hip swinging, lead to the side dodging manoeuvre). Then we engaged the services of a behaviourist and he got a lot better at coping with his triggers. I never sought medical attention and the bites never got infected (though they were always through jeans - perhaps that kept the worst of it out?). I can be slightly cavalier with my health and at the time I couldn't get a GP registration (had been turned down by my 8 nearest practices because I didn't fall into their catchment areas!) so I'm not particularly recommending this course of inaction, just saying that I lived to tell the tale...

Like PP, if this is a fear-based behaviour then I would be concerned about castration. Indeed, it can make a reactive dog worse. The method by which this essentially works is that the testicles produce testosterone. Testosterone helps them feel more confident. Feeling less confident leads to more anxiety, and so more reactivity...

You can't reverse castration, but it is possible to do a chemical castration that lasts for 6 months as a 'try before you buy' to see if it affects behaviour, and/or a vasectomy if there are concerns about unwanted puppies. FWIW if I had the option, I'd be reattaching DDog's bollocks - sadly he came pre-neutered as a rescue dog.

Can I ask what the name of the behaviourist was? Only because there are some totally unqualified people out there calling themselves trainers / behaviourists. (You can PM me if you prefer).

Ultimately behavioural issues need to be solved through behavioural techniques. Castration really isn't the silver bullet that some seem to think it is; I would urge you to go for the chemical castration to see what effect it has before going for the traditional castration.

I am not sure how regulated canine behaviourists are so in this situation I would be asking my vet for a recommendation.

They're not even slightly regulated. Literally anyone can call themselves a behaviourist, or trainer.

My old NDN told me he'd jacked in his call centre job and was now a dog walker and behaviourist. He didn't have the first clue about any of it. Not a fucking clue. He was acting entirely within the law - while there are laws against unqualified people calling themselves vets, doctors and architects, there are no such rules for canine training and behaviour.

Neutering will not help you. Look for a new behaviourist with the initials CCAB after their name

Whatever you do, do not get your dog neutered.

It sounds like a re-directed bite to me but you need to get help from an accredited behaviourist. Your vet should be able to recommend someone.

And make sure you get your bite checked out they can become infected very easily. I hope you're not too shaken up.

Thank you all so much. Obviously a complete re-think needed.

I'm thinking a bit more clearly now, and am fairly sure it was a re-directed bite, but if he had redirected onto DC or anyone else...

It's hard to reconcile this afternoon with the dog that has been sleeping peacefully at my feet for the last hour or so, or cuddled up to DC. (Although that made me nervous, and I was watching them like a hawk, which is sad in itself).

I really hope we can get him through this.

Honestly don’t get him neutered just now...

The issue with dogs and the previous bite are not likely to be separate issues, it’s very likely that they’re both linked to the joint pain.

Get your vet to refer him to a pain and behaviour specialist... there are a few, I can recommend one if you’re in Scotland.

Please have a look at Absolute Dogs on facebook and you tube. Consider a consult with Tom Mitchell the vet behaviourist there. And do not neuter until you have had a consultation.

Just a quick update from me. I took Ddog for a vet check and apparently he has an ear infection in both ears.

While obviously not a complete answer to his behaviour - by any means - presumably he was/is in some pain/discomfort which probably contributed to his reaction with the other dog.

He's now on drops so hopefully it will clear up quickly.

Ear issues can be incredibly painful. It could well be a partial reason. Good luck.