Tricky to feed miniature schnauzer - some suggestions needed please!

[nicky2512]

Hi. My 5 year old miniature schnauzer has been on a limited diet since he was little. His list of issues are:
allergic to wheat.
Pancreatitis.
Vomits if he goes too long between meals so little and often needed.
Can’t eat dry/hard food - will bring it straight back up.
Gets awful, smelly wind from more than a few spoonfuls of dog food.
Has severe colitis which flares up if he eats anything wrong, if anything upsets him, if his routine is disturbed, if he gets any other problems like sore ear.

After horrendous bother when he was tiny and his intestines were so swollen, practically nothing was going through (we almost lost him) trial and error led to the following diet:
Breakfast - some scrambled egg
10 am small amount rice crispies
Lunch - plain boiled chicken and 2 tablespoons burns egg moist food (needs wee bit of bulk to help keep going to loo)
3pm - spoon of rice pudding
Dinner - boiled chicken and rice
Supper - boiled chicken and rice.

This has worked great. He’s happy, healthy and an incredible wee boy who we adore. However in the last few weeks he has stopped eating his breakfast and the wee drop of dog food. Sometimes he will go right through until dinner before he eats.
He can not afford to lose weight and also on these days he’s so gurgly and windy.

He is really not bothered by food. He likes a bit of carrot or a green bean but he can take it or leave it.

The vet always said to only stick to one meat protein at a time but I’m wondering if there’s anything else I could try to tempt him.

I was looking earlier at forthglade grain free chicken and wondered if that was worth a try (only a tiny bit). Or is there anything else that might tempt him.

I don’t want to feed boiled chicken at every meal in case I put him of it too.

Sorry that was long but would appreciate any ideas. Thank you.

Poor pooch ! thats a lot of issues for one dog

TBH I have no real experience of this all of my dogs have been good eaters but if they were a bit off for some reason I would give then a sardine ( in oil ) mashed up in rice

AlCalavicci Thank you. I hadn’t thought of fish. That’s a possibility.

Yes, he has more than his share of problems. Always healthy and well now though as long as we keep exactly to his routine.

Vet is happy there’s nothing else wrong so we just need to try and tempt him a bit.

Here’s the boy himself!!

@AlCalavicci

Poor pooch ! thats a lot of issues for one dog

TBH I have no real experience of this all of my dogs have been good eaters but if they were a bit off for some reason I would give then a sardine ( in oil ) mashed up in rice

Unfortunately @nicky2512 can't feed the sardines in oil due to the pancreatitis.

It's a tough one. What other proteins have you tried? Can he tolerate beef? Lean lamb? Have you tried anything like kangaroo?

Quite a few MSs seem to get stomach issues - and of course pancreatitis is a known breed issue.

I know your vet wouldn't be suggesting it - but a number of MS owners find feeding raw helps. There is a raw feeding MS group on FB, which you could lurk on, ask questions, see if anyone has had similar issues.

catsrus aaah of course. Thanks.

That’s the problem - I’ve never tried any other meat as vet said at start when he tolerated chicken well to stick to one meat protein and not a mix.
That’s why I was wondering about a small amount of a good quality grain free chicken dog food. When I looked though there were so many!

I would have no issue with raw but again it would require a mix of meats.

There's a few MS groups on FB - def ask on there if you don't have luck here
He is lovely!

@catsrus Ah I did not think of that , Sorry @nicky2512.
Would a less oily fish be ok ? or very lean mince ?

When my boy came home from the vets after a week as an inpatient with pancreatitis, the internal medicine specialist suggested a diet of white fish and quinoa or wholegrain rice. As things settled we started, on her advice, alternating the white fish with steamed salmon steaks. He loved it. We bought the bags of frozen white fish steaks and salmon steaks from Tesco and just steamed one in the microwave per meal, which made it really easy. We also kept some microwave pouches of rice and quinoa in for ease of use occasionally, as he was on 6 meals a day for quite a while.

Apparently quinoa has all sorts of nutrients and amino acids etc in it, so it’s better than just plain white rice. He was on it or months and did well, if we tried to transition him onto any other food he became ill again really quickly - until we tried Chappie, which worked a dream (although obviously that’s no good for your boy if he’s allergic to wheat).

Is he just under your normal vet? If you haven’t done so already, I’d recommend a referral to a veterinary nutritionist, the large veterinary referral centres/hospitals have them and it’s their job to find solutions for dog that are as complex as your poor boy. We were just about to be referred when we tried Chappie in desperation and he finally started gaining weight.

Have you tried dog foods with hydrolysed proteins?
Poor (but very handsome) boy! I hope you find something to tempt him.

I've also just remembered reading that the more unusual proteins are more likely to be tolerated by dogs with allergies. Buffalo and venison are strong tasting but low fat.

Oh what a handsome chap !

@nicky2512

catsrus aaah of course. Thanks.

That’s the problem - I’ve never tried any other meat as vet said at start when he tolerated chicken well to stick to one meat protein and not a mix.
That’s why I was wondering about a small amount of a good quality grain free chicken dog food. When I looked though there were so many!

I would have no issue with raw but again it would require a mix of meats.

He might have meant one at a time though - that's the usual thing to do with an elimination diet. You find what works, stick with it for a while, then when you introduce a different protein you will know whether or not there is a reaction.

I think white fish is an excellent suggestion for a new protein. If you cook the rice and fish together then it gives the rice more flavour 😎

JRT owner here and my dog is collitis prone and was tested recently for pancreatitis, luckily tests came back negative. Guess what caused flare up? Chicken.
I've cut chicken out of his diet completely. He now has Lily's Kitchen wet food and some Baker's moist meaty chunks, and is a healthy happy boy passing good solid stools.

Thank you all so much. Definitely lots to think about there! I will reread and think about all the advice.

I think in the meantime I will give white fish a try. I was always reluctant to try anything different when things were working well but I need to do something now.

Unfortunately chappie was recommended by the vet way back in the early days before we knew the extent of his problems. As was some high fat prescription diet to make him gain weight. Neither went well!!!

It is worth thinking about some of the more unusual things too.

A specialist would be a good idea. I assume my vet would know where to try.
Thanks again for all the advice. Despite everything he is the best wee boy. He’s a cuddly wee angel and we would do anything for him.

He's getting almost no calcium and is likely deficient in micronutrients.

I'd suggest a referral to an internal medicine so equalisation for proper investigations

I was recommended Chappie by the vet as well as Butchers as complete foods good for sensitive tummies but both contain chicken. I'd also been home cooking meat and veg for my dog but the vet said no good long term because it wasn't a complete food. I was told to go for complete foods low in fat and not too high in protein and foods that have just a few ingredients. Lily's Kitchen seems to suit him very well. It's not cheap at £2/tin but none of it is wasted. He also has Bakers Moist Meaty chunks which is a semi-moist complete food and which he likes and suits his tummy. He will not entertain any brand of hard kibble! The Bakers is cheap and cheerful.

My dog is bouncing with health like I haven't seen in ages since I cut chicken out. I strongly suggest you try the same OP. Chicken is a common problem in dogs with sensitive tummies. Often not realised because it's the go to solution when they have an upset tum.

I know it’s a contentious issue but after a couple of bouts of pancreatitis, I started raw feeding my spaniel. He now has three smaller meals a day of complete raw food supplement by raw carrot and the occasional dried sprat. I’ve not had any stomach issues with him since. I use Poppy’s Picnic.

If you want to persevere with chicken based food try the small Applaws chicken breast tins , they’re the only wet dog food my dog will eat consistently and they look nothing like dog food .

My vet said raw food not recommended in cases of pancreatitis, and my dog never took to it when I tried.

Thanks everyone. I would never have thought of changing away from chicken to be honest.
You have definitely all given me a lot to think about.

I’m not decided yet which way to go but I will speak to my vet again about maybe investigating further rather than him just saying as long as his weight stays good to leave diet as it is.
Thank you.

@nicky2512

Thanks everyone. I would never have thought of changing away from chicken to be honest. You have definitely all given me a lot to think about.

I’m not decided yet which way to go but I will speak to my vet again about maybe investigating further rather than him just saying as long as his weight stays good to leave diet as it is.
Thank you.

Honestly OP There's no way that's a balanced diet. It's great that he's well now but he will experience health problems longterm. He needs proper allergy testing and a gastroenterology referral

I’m surprised your vet hasn’t suggested a veterinary balanced hydrolysed protein diet such as Purina HA/hills ZD. One specifically designed for food intolerances and diet trials- not a bog standard ‘hypoallergenic’ diet.

Nutritionally balanced plus clinically proven to have lots of success with allergies and pancreatitis treatments. It’s usually the first port of call for dietary related issues as part of an exclusion diet that’s balanced nutritionally.

I would also request a full allergy panel and referral to a GE specialist if I were you to get this sorted once and for all as it sounds like he’s just ticking along but not as he should be!

Hope you manage to get it sorted!

What a cutie! My MS has gut issues from time to time and I put her on a low fat diet of scrambled egg, boiled chicken and steamed white fish (which she loves). So I’d say the white fish is def worth a go.
What about tinned salmon for some calcium or would that be too fatty?
Venison could be a good call as well as very low fat. They had some in Aldi today!

Hope you get it sorted, maybe get a second opinion from a different vet. My MS is a greedy little beggar which I think is fairly typical of the breed.

Thank you everyone.
He did have some hills food but it was when he was very young and I can’t remember what.
He had allergy testing at same time.

At the time every different food he tried flared him up terribly and he went back to chicken. Eventually vet said just to leave him on chicken as he was happy and well on that and he had gained weight.

He seems very happy but I am concerned that he’s not getting everything he needs so will definitely get in touch with vet (or possibly another vet).

If you try a diet such as HA the proteins have been changed to avoid allergic reaction. It means you can use it as a diet trial as there’s practically no allergens at all.
It’s balanced enough to be used long term however, unlike just chicken.

It would be my first port of call in a dog with gastro disease or allergies as you can rule out everything allergy wise and start with a clean slate.