Accidents! In need of serious help 😢

[Mammaaof]

So our puppy is now nearly 9 months old and is still having accidents like a 12 week old. I'm really struggling with it. I'm following all the advice I've ever been given. I've re started toilet training 3 times and he just never ever goes one day without weeing in the house. Multiple times. Last night was the final straw when he peed on my sofa. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. He just doesn't seem to understand it at all 😢😢
One day this week I took him outside he went for a wee I praised as always we came back in and he cocked his leg up on my washing basket and did a wee.
He is now restricted to being in the kitchen most of the day because as soon as I turn my back he wees somewhere. I really am at the end of my tether and I feel like it's definitely coming between the bond of me and my lovely puppy as it's just so constant 😢😢

Put him on a house line so he is always with you and if you miss a cue that he’s going to go as soon as he starts to go scoop him up ( if he’s not too big) or drag him mid wee to the door calling out wees outside , wees outside . That was the thing that finally got our stupid dog to realise what he was supposed to do , although he wasn’t as old as yours .

What routine are you doing at the moment? And what breed is he?

Is he peeing inside randomly or is he "double peeing" when he's coming back inside after a garden wee and then weeing inside the house almost straight away? If you can (hopefully) see a pattern to it, that's going to make it easier to prevent.

I'm a bit confused by the 'started' training 3 times - if he is struggling that much how has it ever stopped? Or am I reading it wrong and actually he may be toilet trained but also marking indoors?

If it was me I'd be right back to basics (and I may have marking coming as my boy is 8 months!) With me all the time, constant supervision for the next few weeks - treat for every wee outside, I have a pen I used for toilet training so it became deliberate rather than just accidental whilst outside.. .he couldn't explore until the wee was done. Lots of praise for outside, proper enzyme cleaner for any indoors.

If its marking I would make sure he is with me all the time so no opportunities for secret ones, keep on lead if possible, the second the leg goes up - he gets taken outside, if he wees there - treat straight away.

I found keeping doors shut for the room he was in really helpful for toilet training, annoying but meant he couldn't get up to mischief or sneak off anywhere and toilet before he 'got it'.

You'll get there but will need to be hardcore for a little while!

Hi @OohMrDarcy my dog trainer told me to re start toilet training right from the start so I've gone back to basics 3 times and he still doesn't understand.
He does wee outside I stand there with him watch him, praise him, he comes back in and wees straight away even tho sometimes I'm stood out there for 20/30 mins with him making sure he's completely finished. It's really getting me down as he is confined to the kitchen now as its easier to clean off the tiles, but I can put him in there for 10mins while getting the children ready and he will wee in there. X

@PeckyOwl so he will wee in the garden I'll stand there sometimes for up to 30mins and he will still come back inside and wee. But in the garden he won't just go once, he will to 5-6 times all different places. So I don't know if he's not emptying his bladder properly, because the wees in the house are full on wees not just a tiny amount

If you’ve gone back to basics 3 times does that mean you think he’s got it and you’ve moved on? Because if so you need to go back to the point where you think he’s got it and stay at that point for a little while.

It sounds like it’s a routine for him to wee outside then come in and wee inside. So that ten minute slot is when you need to be extra vigilant. As soon as he shows cues rush him outside.

I would restrict him to one room until you have cracked it.

Do you use a command for toileting? If not start one then he will know that is what you want when you are outside.

Have you cleaned up everything inside with enzymes cleaner?

If peeing inside pick up and run straight outside then say the command and praise praise praise. Sometimes they just need a bit more help to finally 'get it'.

So I get to the point where he can be in another room, then he just starts weeing inside again so have to go back to taking him out every 10mins all day, and just leaving him in the kitchen, which I'm riddled with guilt for 😢
Yes I've bought special spray for the wees inside. Thing is he's weeing as soon as my back is turned, I have 2 children so as soon as my attention is on them I come back into the kitchen and he's peed.
I just feel like an awful dog owner and it must be my fault that it's just not clicking with him X

So in the garden it seems like he's scent marking, but he's properly relieving himself in the house. Sounds like he's really not got the house training idea straight, rather than it being a new teenage thing.

If he only does the little wees outside then when you come back in you need to keep him glued to your side/on a house lead/in a pen for 5-10 minutes and then back out again.

Teaching a command word could be really useful, then you can be more certain that he knows what he's being rewarded for, but you'll have to be careful he only gets rewarded for doing a proper big wee, otherwise he might try doing loads of tiny wees for treats!

Vet check first.
Take out every 30 mins - set your alarm on your phone to remind you
As soon as he has weed come back indoors and then go straight outside again. DO not hang around for 30 mins outside.
Take him to wee on a lead
Keep the door shut and open the door to go out.
ALWAYS go out with him
Always reward for weeing outside

This will need to be done for weeks.

I would also write a diary and jot down when he wees and poos.

As the time between the wees increases you can obviously increase the time that you take him out BUT do not rush this

hmmm - how big is he? I'd go full out hardcore from what you've described, and treat him like a little pup - outside as MUCH AS POSSIBLE for the next few weeks - with him, sit in a chair out there wiht a cuppa if needed.... save the rewards for a big wee out there, if you do have to go indoors carry him (assuming small enough, I can carry mine!) or crate if you need to do something, so he literally has no option to wee inside... as much attention as possible to him being outside and watching his wees for as long as you can... if you can do that for a couple of weeks and get all his wees outside in that time, fantastic - then when you do allow a little freedom inside, it needs to be gradual - so initially just in one room - when you are there, again keep the focus on treats and praise for a big outside wee... still if you need to be focussed on something else, pop him in his crate for a few mins (assuming he has one - they REALLY help for this stuff).. if a week or two of that is still going well, then allow that room and hall, or another room... very slow and steady - hopefully you'll start getting to the point where he will find a way to let you know he needs to leave the room - mine started with just a look at the door, now puts his paws up on it. When that happens, take him outside straight away to reinforce what he is doing - he might mean he wants mischief in another room, but it will teach him thats the way to get outside...

Hopefully that makes sense and you will get to the point of getting that freedom, but it has to be really slow so that going outside becomes the habit for him, remember, he doesn't know where is ok and where isn't at the moment - he may think in one room he can't, but others he can - that needs to be taught, but he will get there.

By praise do you just mean verbally or are you giving him something that re-enforces the behaviour of urinating outside, such as high value treats or a quick play with a toy (whatever your dog finds rewarding)?

@Happenchance a really good question! and it depends.

I tend not to reward with treats or play as some dogs will wee a bit then look at you for the treat and come indoors to finish off the wee.

Weeing itself is self rewarding. You know the feeling that you are busting for a wee and the relief when you actually go to the loo!

I would reward with praise and touch (if your dog likes touch). "What an awesome pup" , " you are the best pup ever" " what a fab wee", "amaaaaaazing what a boy" as you stroke your dog etc etc. But you really have to milk it not just a good lad and come in! Get the tail to wag!

If you dog likes being outside I would stay outside after the wee for a bit of fun. If your dog likes being inside I would reward by coming inside.

Have you had him checked at the vet to make sure there’s nothing underlying?

First things first, he needs to go the vet for a check-up to make sure there are no underlying health issues that could be causing him problems.

Then, he needs to go out every 30 minutes, after meals, drinks, playtime, sleep, naps, training and walks. Keep him on a lead so that he can't mess about.

When he does succeed - as in, when he starts weeing - add a command word in there (we used "go toilet"), then lots of over the top praise and a high value treat. You could also start using training bells - so when you take him out, ring the bells by the door before you go out. He should start to link ringing the bells with going out to the toilet, and then getting a treat.

I would also make sure you're cleaning up accidents quickly and using a proper enzyme solution (Simple Solution is excellent). If you have carpet make sure he hasn't soaked through to the underlay either.

When he's indoors I would attach him to you at all times - as soon as you notice the signs of needing to go (excess sniffing, circling, squatting) you can then take him outdoors right away as he's already attached to you.

Good luck!

Hi sorry I've been to the vets today, no issues but has advised that he is castrated so he's booked in on 19th march. Vet seems to think he is scent marking. I've taken him out every 15 mins today and he's gone and still had 4 "accidents" inside and he knows he's done wrong as he goes to hide

Just to add I have always done a command word and he knows it and listens outside, he knows where he is supposed to wee. Also always done the lots of praise with high value treat

Do not rush to castrate your dog. Scenting is often a sign of anxiety that is made worse by castration. You need to get to the root of the problem before making a permanent decision that could have negative behavioural consequences

Firstly - did your vet analyse a urine sample to check for infection?
If not this is the first step. Not permanently removing bits of his anatomy.
The decision for castration should be made based on his temperament, breed, individual health risks and age not as an attempt to 'fix' behaviours which are likely unrelated. If he's been peeing indoors since he was a puppy then there is a learned element to this behaviour and that needs to be addressed, it cannot be being driven by sex hormones if it was occurring prior to puberty and if it's not being driven by sex hormones, castration will not help.

he knows he's done wrong as he goes to hide

This is interesting. Why is he hiding from you? What are you doing to make him frightened?

He doesn't know he's done wrong because dogs have no sense of moral justice. Children don't reliably acquire an understanding of right and wrong in all contexts until the ages of about 8-10. Your dog certainly will never achieve this. He's reacting to your voice/body language and actions. So there is something in your behaviour which is worrying him. Again this indicates he's feeling anxious.

What breed is he? Toy breeds often struggle with toilet training so his breed is relevant.

I’m not sure he does know he’s done wrong, just that when you come back he often gets told off?

It does sound like it’s scent marking
Have you tried one of those posts or sprays for outside to encourage them where to go?
You could also start introducing a toilet command
And instead of just praise treat him as well, make it really worth his time to go outside and pee

I would personally crate train him at this point, he’s unlikely to pee where he is sleeping, so he can’t continue to practice the habit.
Also make sure you have a good enzyme cleaner, not just any cleaner, and scrub 2 or 3 times in any area he goes in the house.

When he’s not in the crate have him on a house line and you need to figure out his tells.

If you’re getting to a point where he stops going in the kitchen, you need to keep him in the kitchen still, for at least a week or so, reinforcing that he doesn’t go in the house.
Then take him into one other room for short periods, supervised, then back into the kitchen

He may be overwhelmed by too much space and trying to secure himself by making it small familiar, so you need to build up to it

Yes the vet ruled out a urine infection.
I can tell he's done an accident without even seeing the accident as he goes straight into his bed, I show him the wee and put him outside and say " pee pee outside"
He sleeps in a crate in the night and has never had an accident, I was surprised that he peed on the sofa as usually dogs don't wee where they sleep.
Yes he is a toy breed he's a cavapoochon.
I've gone through 2 bottles of enzyme cleaner in the past 2 weeks it's the RSPCA that I bought.
@Veterinari this is the point we got to a point where he wasn't going inside, but this last few weeks has been horrific, he is also humping absolutely anything he can, earlier he was humping his toy and all of a sudden wee just started going everywhere while he was humping.

I can tell he's done an accident without even seeing the accident as he goes straight into his bed, I show him the wee and put him outside and say " pee pee outside"

This may not be helping. Showing him his wee won't make him stop weeing in the house. Dogs live in the moment and don't connect something they've done five minutes ago with being told off in the present.

Unless you can physically stop him in the act and take him outdoors, just clean up accidents and don't react in any way, either negatively or positively.

@sunflowersandbuttercups but he never does it in front of me, I literally went upstairs to drop a box on the landing and when I got back down not even 10 seconds he had weed. Even though I had literally brought him in not 1 minute before going upstairs

[quote Mammaaof]@sunflowersandbuttercups but he never does it in front of me, I literally went upstairs to drop a box on the landing and when I got back down not even 10 seconds he had weed. Even though I had literally brought him in not 1 minute before going upstairs[/quote]
I get that, but showing him the pee afterwards won't stop him doing it in the first place.

At the moment he sees that he pees indoors and nothing happens. You coming in later and telling him off has no meaning to him as he won't connect the two.

What I'm saying is if you're not there in the moment to take him outside then it's best to do nothing and just clean up.

I've taken him out every 15 mins today and he's gone and still had 4 "accidents" inside and he knows he's done wrong as he goes to hide

Why would he need to hide?