Etiquette with breeders

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We contacted a breeder pre Christmas about a litter - following some questions we were placed as shortlisted. Since the puppies were born the breeder has Kindly shared lots of videos, pics and confirmed that we could have a bitch.

We went to see the puppy this weekend - met with breeder, everything was great and we agreed pick up dates and also payment process.

Later today they contacted me to say that they are not happy for us to have a puppy - they feel that we aren’t confident enough.

They mostly put the fact down to the fact that when we got there the mum was barking a lot - we were all mindful that we were strangers and she was protective of her litter and stood back. The breeder feedback that we should have stroked the mum to calm her down.

I thought this may have upset the mum further.

We completely respect the decision of course and know that a breeder must be happy with the homes that puppies are going to.

What I have found a little frustrating is that during the weeks that we have been in contact and given the number of pics / videos that they sent us - we have not pursued any other litters.

Was this a total mistake?
In terms of meeting future breeders, is there an expectation we will interact with the mum as well as the puppy?

Thank you

Champ dogs doesn’t mean good breeder.
How many bitches do they have? How many litters does each have? How many litters a year?

How much were you paying? Money will be at the root of this

I agree with PP's, I think you've been gazumped.

There was a post (I think on here) the other day saying their breeder had offered the pups to others for an extra £500, so ditched them and went with someone else.

They've put their prices up. I think you dodged a bullet

To be clear - I don’t think it was up to you to calm her dog down... just in general it’s a good idea to interact with the mum because a lot of temperament is hereditary.

I suspect the excuse the breeder gave you is bullshit.

Someone else offered more, or she decided to keep the bitch to breed from in a few years.

The excuse is BS they oversubscribed and sold it to someone else. Or someone offered more money

Thank you all for responding. As disappointed as we are it’s really reassuring that many of you believe this was down the money.

The price was £3k and we agreed to send a deposit through later that day.

@tabulahrasa thank you - that’s good to know for another time and out of this we want to be as prepared as we can be!

3 grand is far too much anyway. I breed rare breed dogs and they are only going for 2k each

Wait and find another breeder

We are always honest and say we have x many puppies but x+3 people for homes on the list just in case someone backs out and everyone is usually fine about it and understands.

We only take deposits at 6 weeks as circumstances on both sides may change.

I'm sorry you be gone through it but I very much believe everything happens for a reason and you're meant to find another dog

Are you after show or working lines? I know there are breed clubs for show type. I would start with a breed club. Also check parents have health tests before breeding. Hips etc.
Good luck op.
(TBH barking mum would make me worry she’s not well socialised/normally in the house.)

Check out rescue dogs from Europe or Thailand there’s loads of sites about and lots of them will
Place with children
Over 5 for puppies.

I agree that there is probably another reason why the breeder doesn't want you to have a pup. In the breeder's defence it may not be down to money.

I have a litter of pedigree pups for sale at the moment. Five out of seven have already been reserved and I took a call from someone earlier this week who, on paper seemed great, but asked a lot of very weird questions and didn't provide me with the level of comfort that I wanted in order to know that my pup would be going to a knowledgeable confident home.

They have gone away to consider and I'm hoping that they decide they don't want one of mine (as one of the issues was that they wanted first pick, even though they are 6th in line). If they come back hoping to put a reservation down I'm going to have to provide a kind justification as to why I no longer have any available.

I know everyone is polarised regarding puppy prices. But I think making sure that people know that a substantial amount of money is involved will ensure that a higher level of consideration is given as to whether buying a puppy is the right thing to do for that buyer.

General consumerism shows us that cheap prices lead to a throwaway society and when animals are involved that perspective is never positive.

You had a lucky escape!
No way on earth would I buy a puppy from a barking, agitated mum who needed stroking to calm her down.
No way.
Temperament is inherited and fear/wariness of strangers is most definitely not a trait I would be looking for!

Hmmm a new bitch protecting her pups from
a number of people she doesn't know.
That doesn't scream aggression to me, especially given that households are experiencing hugely reduced footfall from friends and neighbours and the bitch has only been in contact with a limited number of people.

Also, I'm not sure if the OP has mentioned if it's a first litter or not, that could make a difference too. Like first time mums, bitches don't all have the innate Mother Earth nature that we might expect and need to learn what is abs isn't a threat to their pups.

Hmmm a new bitch protecting her pups from a number of people she doesn't know
That doesn't scream aggression to me, especially given that households are experiencing hugely reduced footfall from friends and neighbours and the bitch has only been in contact with a limited number of people
It screams nervous.
Parental temperament is so important, I’d go so far as to say it’s even more important than physical health.
It is the best indicator of how the puppy will mature.
I wouldn’t even consider purchasing a puppy with parents that showed noticeable nervousness or aggression.
And for all it’s loving, family reputation, labradors are very big, very strong dogs.
So a good Stable temperament is even more important.

@BlackSabbath

Yeah I bet someone offered a substantial amount more than you were going to pay.

Yes, that was my first thought.

You've probably had a lucky escape - if profit is the most important thing to the breeder, the dogs might have all sorts of health issues because you can bet there was no attention to health when the bitch was mated.

Thanks all. It was the bitches first litter.

Hmmmm

I am inclined to think that the breeder was oversubscribed or a friend wanted a puppy or she got an offer of more money and that she ditched you with a bullshit excuse.

If you wanted to reply in kind, you could reply that you were taken aback and thought that mum would have been better socialised or have better manners.

Probably best not to reply or engage though.

Next time if that happens, you could ask the breeder how you could make the mum feel more comfortable. Then they can’t criticise you.

You did nothing wrong. I have a friend who breeds and we popped round once when her bitch had a litter a couple of weeks old. I couldn't resist having a peek and the mother immediately became very worried, growling etc. My friend ushered me away and advised we leave her to get used to us. An hour or so later she wandered out to the garden where we were sitting to have a pee and was more than happy to have a fuss and a stroke. If I had gone rushing in when she was growling and tried to stroke her I have no doubt at all she would have gone for me - she had babies to protect! Her offspring are all lovely and have beautiful temperaments, no aggression at all. I'd find another breeder or look into rescue, (although I understand they can be fussy if you have young kids). Best of luck - the right dog is out there for you!

I agree that it’s a made up excuse and would also be concerned about a nervy mum.

What’s the betting one of the surplus buyers found out they weren’t getting a puppy from the litter and offered an extra £500 or so more. Happens too often. Sellers should have morals as well as wanting their puppies to go to good homes but often they just went the profit.

Read the post - first time litter, the OP hasn't mentioned the age of the pups.

I think the breeder and dog have been judged overly harshly. The mum considered the situation, didn't know the intruders (and we don't know how many there were).

For clarification my bitch hasn't displayed this behaviour but I can totally understand why they might. Excessive noise, a lot of people etc.

Look at the amount of new mums on here who go ballistic when someone in the supermarket even breathes near their baby - why would you expect a new dog mum to be less invested in their offspring.

I'd be more concerned if a bitch wasn't concerned about her pups and displayed protective behaviours. But again - the level of concern depends on a number of factors: age of the bitch, age of the pups, how many new people, the behaviours of the new people, where the whelping box was - did mum feel secure where the pups where.

3k for a lab! What's going on out there 🤦‍♀️

That litter was massively overpriced, however I wouldn't say the bitches behaviour ultimately means she was aggressive.

However you did the right thing, if a dog is being protective over her litter I wouldn't push her. The breeders I've gotten my dogs from like to see how we interacted with her dogs before they were pregnant. Then we got onto their list then met the pups