First time potential dog owners - choosing a breed

[gerbo]

First time poster here.

My dc are 11 and 14 and were thinking of getting a dog. We have a small 3 bed in a town in the Chilterns so great walking nearby. We would prefer a small dog which needs medium exercise amounts (?1-2 hours a day tops).

We would prefer a calm breed, our children obviously aren't bouncy anymore more which makes things easier.

I work four short days (8-345) and dh will be at home 3 ish days a week.
Do you think this would maybe work? With a dog Walker on days when I'm out longer?

Just starting to think about this, at initial stages!! Breeds which have popped out on lists so far are: daschund, English bulldog, King Charles spaniel, affenspischer.....

I think we'd prefer a puppy rather than a rescue just in terms of knowing the dogs history/raising it from scratch.

I'm a complete novice so please be gentle! Thanks. Any advice gratefully received. Like I said, we're complete beginners!

I wasn't very clear- I wonder if anyone with older children and a smaller house, similar circumstances, could advise us on good breeds for first time owners?

I just wanted to say that puppies can be quite challenging. I remember when ours - a collie - was six months old she was chewing everything and it felt relentless. I would get a rescue older than six months in future.

Small dog doesn't necessarily mean low energy. Are you against larger dogs? We have a hound and all the hounds I've known are laid back and relaxed.

First of all I'd look into potential health issues. Three of the four breeds you've named there jump out at me as not particularly healthy/hardy. With dachshunds you'd need to be very careful with their spines. English bulldogs are brachycephalic and struggle to breathe. Please think about the ethics of this. King Charles - look up syringomyelia. Just googled and looks like affenpinschers can be prone too.

What is it that attracts you to those breeds? I have a cocker spaniel and also have a weakness for miniature schnauzers. Slightly bigger than the ones you're looking at but might suit you.

Understand why you'd prefer a puppy over a rescue but if you're looking for a 'calm breed' you have to understand that puppies are mental and hard work. Not really sure what you mean by a calm breed, I have a working cocker pup but we've trained her to settle and as long as she gets enough exercise and stimulation she's calm at home.

Also 8-4 with a dog walker might be okay for an older dog but not a puppy. We use a daycare on days we're both at work. It might be more expensive than a walker so you'll need to factor that in.

Disclaimer - not an expert, just a first time dog owner on my own steep learning curve. Have a look at the puppy survival thread for a look at the realities of puppy ownership.

I would start by thinking about what you can offer. Grooming and training as well as walking.
Puppies can’t go straight to daycare and wouldn’t cope being left alone. So a walker won’t sort that.
No puppies are calm. They are bitey little bundles of buggeriness.
A properly evaluated rescue can be a better bet than a puppy actually. You can know its character and foibles before you commit.
Do be very aware of health issues. Back and heart are serious issues for a couple of the breeds you mention.

Firstly - that isn’t a short day for a dog... so if you mean your other days are even longer, you’re going to need more than just a Walker tbh.

And puppies need someone full time for pretty much the first 6 months (could be shorter, could be longer, but planning for 6 months is fairly sensible)

Staffy. Happy with an hour or 2 walking per day. Moulting is minimal. Occasionally get the zoomies but normally quite chilled. Land sharks as puppies.

Also look at mini schnauzer English bull terrier. Remember that puppies are arseholes that bite, luckily they are also cute. A well brought up Staffy is probably one of the nicest dogs you will ever meet.

Dachshunds can cost a fortune at the vets with bad backs. King Charles spaniels often have problems with breathing due to their short snouts, have you considered a KC cavalier?

Do you have local puppy day care? The little blighters are quite demanding for the first 6 months / year.

8-3.45 is a long time to leave a dog on its own. Many young dogs won't cope longer than an hour or two, tops. Even with a dog walker coming in, you can't leave a young dog home alone and unattended for 8 hours per day! An older dog may cope but no rescue would rehome to toy if that was your plan.

I also understand wanting a calm dog but there's no such thing as a calm puppy, so you need to think about how you're going to cope with the puppy months while you're out at work all day and your DH is working at home.

Puppies need need constant supervision - mainly to stop them toileting on your floor and chewing everything in sight your DH won't be able to raise a puppy and work at the same time. One or the other will suffer.

Have you really thought through the practicalities and added up the costs of walkers, daycare etc?

Please don’t get a Bulldog, they are an extremely unhealthy breed and buying a pup only causes more deformed dogs to be born.

Staffys are great, they were my second choice dog breed when I was looking to get my first dog. I went with a Shiba Inu as at the time I was worried about a Staffy struggling with some occasional time alone and the odd day of doggy day care.

I should point out that my husband would be home around 3/4 days a week, working from home, all day, so any dog would be home max 2 days. I could also pop home at lunchtime for 30 mins as I work nearby....

Do all/most dog owners stay home or work from home? Is daycare or a dog walker generally quite unusual?

Thanks for all advice. It's honestly appreciated.

We have only just started to ponder the possibility of a dog, it's absolutely not a definite, so these posts are helpful.

I work in a school, so six months home with a new pup isn't possible really. My husband could take the reins but sounds too much if he's working too!

Your husband might be at home but I promise he won't be able to work properly and care for a young puppy at the same time - you really do need eyes in the back of your head for at least 6-12 months

How will he toilet train, supervise the puppy to stop it chewing, prevent it from barking etc. if he's working full-time?

Walkers and daycare are becoming more popular but you can't just get a puppy and send them out on long walks, and not all dogs are suited to daycare. Many find it overwhelming or just aren't suited to the environment - especially those big warehouse style ones. You can get daycare in someone's home but this isn't cheap (and will be pricier for a puppy as they can't be left like older dogs can).

I'm a dog walker and I do puppy visits but they're only thirty minutes long - I wouldn't take a puppy on an hours walk until they were at least 9-10 months old. You really can't leave a puppy all day with only one or two breaks.

“Is daycare or a dog walker generally quite unusual?“

No... dog walkers though only usually do an hour or an hour plus some travel time and the maximum animal welfare organisations recommend dogs being left alone is 4 hours total a day (not periods that are shorter than 4 hours but add up to more) so a 5/6 hour day broken up by a dog Walker might be fine for an adult dog - but not all dogs, some would still find that long and definitely not for a young puppy.

Doggy daycare is another option, but the quality varies and especially for puppies they can be stressful.

I mean, do people get dogs and leave them alone for really long days apart from a Walker in the middle? Sure... but should they is different.

“My husband could take the reins but sounds too much if he's working too!”

Depends on his job really - there’s a lot of sleeping, but you can’t really plan round it while housetraining for instance, so for instance the part of my job I do at home, I can literally abandon it anytime and it doesn’t matter hugely as long as it gets done.

There’s nothing wrong with outsourcing if you can’t be there btw, it’s just that they really need more if it than people without dogs think they do... but if you can find a good dog daycare that’s not just a huge free for all it can work fine.

If you are first time owners and don't have someone home all day then don't get a puppy. It is honestly like saying you want to have a baby but can't take any maternity leave.

My honest advice to you is get an adult dog from a rescue. Even if you have to wait. You have no guarantee of temperament with puppies. My 2 are the same breed and couldn't be more different.

At least with an adult rescue you know what you are getting. There are plenty of them is rescue centres who have no behaviour problems and their history is known, its just a matter of putting your name down and waiting for your perfect match.

Puppies are like toddlers who don't speak English, don't wear nappies and take a minimum of 2 years to grow up enough to be reasoned with. And breed doesn't guarantee anything. My two are the same breed but polar opposites.

Housebreaking them is a nightmare. Especially with smaller breeds as they can only hold it an hour or so. You can't leave them alone for more than an hour and have to get up every couple hours through the night to let them out to pee or clean up the mess if they didn't make it. If you use puppy pads they don't always distinguish between the pad and the dropped jumper/cushion/rug etc.

Also say goodbye to days out unless you have someone to look after them.

They chew. Everything and everyone. Ddog1 is solely responsible for no less than 2 dining tables, 1 fire surround, 6 doorframes and a dressing table. And countless items left lying around, phones/ipod/ remotes etc

She is the sweetest most well behaved dog as an adult, I get compliments on her all the time but the puppy years were brutal. Training is hard. You can't just think fuck it I cba today because if you give an inch they'll take a mile and you're back to square one. You don't know if they'll have behaviour problems until they hit adolescence.

Ddog2 is goofy and biddable but thick as 2 short planks. He took forever to train and his recall is still shaky plus he is reactive so walks are like a military operation with Ddog1 acting as scout. She runs ahead and if her ears go up I wind Ddog2s lead round my arms and brace. There is no reason for this. I've had him since 8 weeks, he has never had a bad experience. No trauma, no abuse, no fear, he's just a dick.

I honestly adore them and don't regret them for a second but the puppy years nearly broke me. I wouldn't do it again now I'm working full time. I just don't have the patience of my 20 something year old self.

We both work. DH full time and myself 4 days per week though some of those are when DH is home.
Our pup went to daycare from 13 weeks.
We couldn't leave him at all until that age and unless your going to get daycare I wouldn't advise getting a dog. Walkers are great but not until pup is older.
Our daycare has a special section for pups but I made sure I'd visited and was happy before getting our dog.
Ours is well priced but it does all add up.
Puppies really do need constant supervision when young.
I-2 hours a day exercise would suit quite a few dogs medium sized dogs. I wouldn't go for any on your list tbh.

There are so many dogs needing a loving home - why not go for a rescue dog.

We are first time dog owners, had ours since January, she’s a cockerpoo. Lovely nature, needs professionally groomed every 4 to 6 weeks and brushed every day. She’s quite a calm dog but she does get taken on about 2 hours of off and on lead walking a day.

I was pretty naive when I got her about how much hard work puppies are. I worked from home for the first 3 weeks but tbh got bugger all done. Then we managed as my step son had just left his job so he hung around with the puppy in the afternoons. You really can’t leave them longer than an hour max 2 when they are that age, and you’d have to have got a proper nap routine established. Toilet training takes to about 6 months.

Now husband wfh pretty much all the time, I’m back in the office mostly and his parents take her from 11 to about 3.

She’s ok being left in the evening for a few hours, and could be left in the day for probably 3 at a push.

Doggy day care do take puppies but you have to watch that they don’t let them run around like loons and enforce a rest. And our local one recommended takes 2 short sessions a week as otherwise it can all get a bit much.

Having said all that getting her was one of the best decisions we ever made wouldn’t be without her.

Oh, and people do make it work, wft and dogs. Puppies are hard work though.

You can have a dog and work, it is a juggle but you can do it. (Just not on MN).

Your big problem is the first 4or5 weeks when they are very little. I wouldn't look at a bulldog (health issues) or a dachshund (difficult to train) . What about a miniature Schnauzer? You should look for breeds that don't generally suffer from separation anxiety (although breed isn't a guarantee)

We made it work with a puppy and working similar hours. We had a friend who did regular puppy visits for us and some dog walkers offer a similar service.

We were also lucky with his temperament- he has never had any separation problems - and because he was fairly easy to toilet train.

My friend who did our puppy visits got a puppy after we had ours but had terrible separation issues and problems with toilet training so we do know we were lucky!

However he was certainly not a calm puppy and is not a particularly calm dog!

Have a look at retired greyhounds. They have their issues and you do have to look for the right fit, but they can blend into families quite seamlessly and for the bill for 1-2hrs exercise per day and generally easy going.
Don't do what we did which was go for a retired greyhounds and come home with a Saluki cross lurcher, thinking all sighthounds are similar. She's the love of my life but I've aged about two decades in the 2 years we have had her.

If you're set on a puppy definitely research your local daycare options. What age do they take, how much does it cost. What are the facilities etc like. Even if you have an older dog it's good to look at these things. We have a trusted kennels, a trusted day care and did have a walker but we've moved and need to find one, so if anything happens we have back up so she can be looked after (ie. Called away on an emergency, delayed at work etc, work trip away, suddenly end up in A&E with DS for 8hours etc etc).

When getting a puppy, look back to your children's toddler years, and the imagine not having any language in common, and the toddlers have teeth and don't wear nappies. You won't be too far off the mark. You have extreme highs, so much joy and love....and then extreme lows because it is a thankless job. Worth it in the end, but it can seem like a long tunnel at the time.

I agree with everyone else,don't underestimate how hard puppies are. I definitely underestimated how tricky it would be WFH. I took 2 days off, 1 to collect him and then the next day, I have no idea what I was thinking TBH, 2 weeks would have been better.

He toilet trained quickly early on, and slept loads, then it was Xmas so everyone around. Mid Jan he regressed and it has been tough. Luckily my work is really flexible so I can do it when I can during the day so I just work later.

There is no way DH could have looked after him and WFH, he doesnt have the multi tasking gene at all.

I do think it is possible to WFH if you have a pup but I think getting to understand their routine etc you probably need a bit of time off first, I definitely wished I had. The other thing is that my pup is super clingy so I am struggling to leave him. Your day is a long day IMO to leave them so regularly.

You cannot underestimate how hard work some puppies can be. But it's not for that long.

You may well need to use doggy day care more than you expect, so factor in the cost. Also many will not take bitches when in season, so you will need a back up plan if you get a girl and want to spay later (talk to your vet idc about neutering and best time for your breed)

If you don't want a large dog, then I would recommend the smaller terriers of the breeds that are generally friendly but less obstinate - Maltese, Havanese, Cairn, Norfolk, Norwich, Border?