Sudden aggression

[TryFlameProof]

As you can see my user name, I'm trying to don a flameproof coat for this as I know the topic can get very heated. I've also cut it down but upfront wanted to say - yes I'm using positive reinforcement, yes I'm watching her like a hawk and yes now she's always on lead.

DDog is 6 a rescue been with us for almost 5 years. Always been a bit anxious, but in 5 years I can think of 2 occasions when she's snap - both reasonable at the time and the second was well over 3 years ago. She isn't overly friendly or social but off lead is happy to sniff about, do a bit of a bow, chase about and then has enough so potters off to sniff something or come hang out with me.

Until 2 months ago ... since then she's attacked half a dozen times, in fairness twice could have been resulting from another dogs behaviour but in the past for a similar incident she'd have just walked away - the others she initiated the attack. All the dogs were fine, I've checked with owners but can't dispute she was very very much in the wrong.

Been to the vet for preliminary exam, no health issues. Talked to the rescue who were helpful, spent a couple of hours with their behaviourist and she behaved beautifully so hard for them to judge but they had some good suggestions especially on reinforcing basic training etc. which we've been doing.

This morning, she attacked again unprovoked. I've got a behaviourist recommended by our vet coming next week (not in Uk so lock down doesn't apply).

I guess my question is more about me - I'm so heartbroken to think she can't be off lead, she loves mooching around the beach or parks and she's only young still. She's not hugely social but in the past enjoyed playing with other dogs, I can't imagine that not happening again. I'm trying to stay calm but I can feel myself tensing when we meet another dog which I know is the worst thing to do. I'm scared she'll genuinely hurt another dog, which would be awful for everyone. And I'm at a loss for what's triggered the change.

Just looking for advice, similar stories where things worked out and behaviour changed back. I know there are some behaviourist on this forum so any ideas from them even if just generic.

We had a similar natured rescue honestly the only thing you can do until you speak to your behaviourist is keep on lead try a. Long line or let her off when and where it is quiet.you might never get to the bottom of her issue you just need to manage it, for her and others safety keep her on lead and in control , I really do sympathise it isn't easy

Oh we didn't let ours say 'hello" for too long to other dogs because what might seem unprovoked to us is a huge deal to her and she is becoming overwhelmed. Or over stimulated and can't cope so she is lashing out.

Thanks @Mrsjayy
I absolutely know it's something we have to manage and help her. We're going to keep walks to some quieter areas and quieter times over the next week or so. I'm conscious I need to not tense when she says hello but just quick hello and move on. I'm trying not to make it worse by inadvertently being tense. She's such a beauty at home.
Like you say, it's not easy is it.

What's happening immediately beforehand? Is she running up to the dogs or are they coming close to her? If they're coming close to her what are they doing - sniffing her? If so, where? Bottom or head?

Sometimes there is a lot of display behaviour than can look awful, but that's actually all it is and there are no bites. Of course it is still something you don't want as this can cause other dogs to become more reactive too, but at least you have an idea that injuries are not going to occur.

With a sudden change like that - I’d be thinking it’s a medical issue tbh.

So different things at different times. One we'd actually walked away about to leave when she turned, bolted and attacked the other dogs. And sadly it's properly attacking not a snap.
But I'd say it's mainly off lead, 2-3 dogs chasing about then taking a breather and sniffing around each other's bums. She's fine to that point but then attacks. I would say it's not every time - she can be absolutely fine for days once even 2 weeks and then just one time.
No pattern if it's a new dog or one she knows, curtains breeds or size. I've been watching her for signs like tending, fur or tail up but none.
The closest thing I can describe it like is when young puppies first learn socialising unsure of the rules of play and then one over reacts - but at 6 it's odd for it to suddenly start and of course she's bigger and stronger.

@tabulahrasa we've had a check with the vet, nothing to be found and she's happy to cuddle/brushed/touched. Even nothing thyroid or bloods. I guess maybe scans are next but vet suggested this behaviourist first.

Muzzle? Our previous ddog wore one for aggression.. Current sight hound has one as she likes pulling our other ddogs along by the ears!

I'm thinking of a muzzle
Sadly in the country I live in if your dog wears one it's like a big neon sign saying "attack dog" and everyone would rather jump into moving traffic than pass you. And no way would other owners allow their digs near you, so I fear it makes it worse longer term.
But I think it's something to think about. It's not just about her once

If she just likes a pottery sniffari probably be less bothered than you think about being on lead. Can use long-line and muzzle train so you can relax about any unexpected interactions, but I'd try to avoid other dogs as clearly she wants space.

I wouldn't rule out pain and is very linked to behaviour issues. My dog see's a vet physio and they've picked up things my vet's check over doesn't. Its a much longer appointment and a more relaxing environment for the dog. The signs can be very subtle like a muscle twitch, way dog looks when a sore area is touched or a reluctance to stretch.

But if your dog does not like other dogs why are you forcing her to interact? She does not need dog friends nor does she sound like she wants them.
It’s fine for her to be indifferent. Recall her around other dogs and walk her to heel until you’ve passed.
Just keep her away and it solves the problem? It will reduce her stress levels massively.

[quote TryFlameProof]@tabulahrasa we've had a check with the vet, nothing to be found and she's happy to cuddle/brushed/touched. Even nothing thyroid or bloods. I guess maybe scans are next but vet suggested this behaviourist first. [/quote]
Sorry I did misread the vet bit...

I wouldn’t rule out pain because she’s fine with you handling her btw, my reactive boy was totally fine with me doing anything to him, but he had spinal pain and elbow pain.

It just seems weird to suddenly escalate like that with no build up or particular reason, which is why I said I’d be thinking medical, but if she’s had a full exam then...

Re muzzle btw - that tbh is the best but about muzzles, it’s not a negative... you want dog’s to stay away, makes it so much easier to work on stuff.

We had a vet behaviourist and they did suggest some pain for our dog he had x-rays and tests it all came back clear ,he really was a mystery.

@Leonberger for 5 years she's been fine and enjoyed interacting with other dogs all be it not for extended periods. So we'd be at the beach for well over an hour and maybe 30 minutes of that she'd enjoy playing with others. This is a change in behaviour. Maybe that's who she is now, but if not it's a shame she misses that interaction.

Thanks for the other messages. Definitely lead which she's happy with on streets etc. And we'll just avoid the beach and parks for now, as she definitely prefers off lead there. Hopefully we see behaviourist next week and come up with a plan.
And yes, maybe a full body exam is needed. I'm open to all possibilities or indeed as MrsJJay says maybe it will be a mystery we just need to find a way to control it.

Sadly in the country I live in if your dog wears one it's like a big neon sign saying "attack dog" and everyone would rather jump into moving traffic than pass you. And no way would other owners allow their digs near you
The thing is though, your dog IS attacking, and, while I'm not sure on the laws in your country, you could be held responsible, dog put down etc. Is it worth that risk? It may not be a permanent addition to your walks if the behaviourist can help, but currently she is not safe to be around other dogs. This could easily escalate to another person, child etc. It's really not worth the risk imo.

Selection of pain & behaviour videos in case useful, these relate to arthritis but imagine any kind of chronic pain is same.

@TryFlameProof

I'm thinking of a muzzle Sadly in the country I live in if your dog wears one it's like a big neon sign saying "attack dog" and everyone would rather jump into moving traffic than pass you. And no way would other owners allow their digs near you, so I fear it makes it worse longer term. But I think it's something to think about. It's not just about her once

I think this is a positive, not a negative, tbh. It'll give your dog a bit of space from other people and dogs, and it'll help you to relax, knowing your dog can't bite anyone even if they did get close. Just as you know your dog is stressed, your dog will know that you are stressed.

I think because the behaviour had changed, you need to be proactive and consistent from a risk point of view, and the work and trying to puzzle through needs to be secondary. You can’t risk her snapping around another dog, or god forbid around a toddler standing next to a dog. She can’t be allowed off to sniff around if she might attack.
My friend has a rescue around the same age. She exercises away from other dogs, or on a lead. She wears a muzzle if anywhere even slightly more risky. They have spent a fortune on specialist training which hadn’t worked on the aggression. (Which isn’t constant, but is unpredictable) She became much more difficult at around five or six, and seems quite fixed in her behaviour now. They’ve never worked out what triggered the change, although she was always anxious and had a rough start. It’s sad, because in many ways she’s a great dog, but I do wonder about the future for her.

@SmallPrawnEnergy that's a very valid point. I guessing I'm struggling to see her that way after years of different behaviour and because most times it's just the same as before. It this randomness of the attacks that's thrown me but you and PP are right it's that randomness that probably makes the muzzle necessary.

Again thanks for all the messages. I'm reading them all even if I don't reply to each one.

Until you've figured out the cause or gotten some more time with a behaviourist, ideally around their dogs in a controlled environment. You need to be keeping this dog away from other dogs. Walk the dog away from others and at a time when there won't be many other dogs around. I think you should definitely be using a muzzle too, your dog is attacking others so owners keeping their dogs away from yours is a good thing.

I am sorry to hear your dog is finding life stressful.

Initially the only way forward is to remove the triggers,which seem to be greetings with other dogs.

I would also want to look into pain, it may be something as simple as blocked anal glands or sore ears.

Either way she needs to destress and get her confidence back and relax on walks. So avoid ALL interaction with dogs.

Teach her a "lets go" which basically means you are going to turn around when you see another dog coming and go in the opposite direction. Turn on the spot with a cheery lets go and reward when she turns with you - this is the only time a tight lead is allowed!

This can act like magic and in some dogs you can almost see the stress leave their bodies and their shoulders and jaws relax. The dog can see that there is not going to be any interaction and they can chill.

I would be doing this way before any counter conditioniong or desensitisation work.

Just get back to being chilled.

Muzzles are a good tool but dogs can still cause harm with a muzzle on so they are not fool proof but it is a good skill for a dog to learn to wear a muzzle without issue.

Some dogs can, for want of a better word be, polite dogs, they do not like to cause confrontation but over time just get pushed to it. It may be that your dog has tolerated interactions with dogs but has had some pushy dogs not taking notice of her polite body language so she has just got fed up and is having to up the anti. You are not stepping in so she is just fed up and giving last resort behaviour.

By allowing her to have and know that she is going to have uninterrupted walk her stress levels will drop and you will then be in a better position to see and understand her emotions and read her body language.

What breed or mix of breeds is she?

IF you feel she is missing out from dog interations (she isn't by the way ) you can up her enrichments at home, so scatter feeding, hiding food in emtpy boxes, finding hidden toys, any kind of scent work,any kind of trick training

Muzzle your dog outside. If she's OK with you and your family then just put a muzzle on so she's not going to bite anyone else of their dog.