I shouldn't have looked on gumtree...

[Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]

...but I did and now I'm pissed off!

Don't worry I'm not buying (not that stupid)
Just sitting here playing on my phone, as you do and found myself on gumtree.

I mean what the hell is this?! £2500 for a mix of random breeds, so blatantly an attempt to cash in on lockdown by breeding family dogs. No care will have been taken over health testing etc

Its not just this advert either.

FRUGS! I mean, never mind that it's a stupid f-ing name, but it's pug crossed with a French bulldog. Wonderful idea! Let's take 2 breeds who can't breath and make shit loads of money from them.

SHUGS! I'm guessing here as the advert wasn't specific but I'm assuming a shitzu crossed with a pug?

DACHOUND - If you're going to sell it you should be able to spell it!

More cockerpoos thank you can shake a stick at.

Puppies around 4 months old being sold for £2000 (obviously a lockdown purchase and they're trying to get their money back/make a bit more)

Even normal breeds which would have been fairly cheap pre lockdown (labrador, border collie etc) going for thousands of pounds.

What is wrong with people?! And when will this end?

@Scoobydoobydoo

I have seen several ads on gumtree and pets4home advertising dogs less than 6 months. Many are private posters and not breeders who claim their circumstances changed and therefore need to sell on.

Surely that is illegal now with Lucy's law? Shouldn't they be returning to the breeder if less than 6 months old. Or have I completely understood it incorrectly?

Lucy's Law only applies to licenced sellers.

It doesn't apply to private sellers of their own pets. Yes you can resell your own pet as it'll likely be a one off (unless they're dodgy "flippers" who don't give two hoots to any kind of law, vet care, morals etc etc).

Only good ethical breeders will take back puppies. Sadly many good breeders haven't bred at all through the pandemic. Dodgy greeders don't want 4-6 month old dogs back and don't want to give any money back either - so people resell to try and get their money back. That's why rescues have had a lot less dogs signed over, people are selling their dogs for £££ instead :(

Thanks @bunnygeek
What you say makes sense

I saw the following info on petplan.co.uk and probably misunderstood
How does Lucy's Law affect pet buyers?
If you’re looking to introduce a new puppy or kitten aged under 6 months in to your home, legally you will only be able to buy the animal directly from the breeder or a genuine rescue. When purchasing a new puppy or kitten from a breeder, be sure to ask the following questions:

1. How old is the puppy/kitten?

When buying a puppy or kitten, it should be over 8 weeks old to ensure that it is physically and emotionally mature enough to leave its mother and litter siblings.

1. Has the puppy/kitten been bred at the premises?

If the puppy/kitten that you’re buying is under 6 months old, legally it must be bred at the premises from which the sale is being made.

MN has been predicting overflowing rescues since last March and its yet to happen. On the contrary people who want to rescue can’t. So I wouldn’t worry OP. Gumtree has always been filled with pets unfortunately.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

??? You haven't needed a dog licence in the UK since I was a teenager - a bloody long time ago!

Sorry, I meant to type I'm in Ireland. We have to have a licence here.

@sophialagiraffe

MN has been predicting overflowing rescues since last March and its yet to happen. On the contrary people who want to rescue can’t. So I wouldn’t worry OP. Gumtree has always been filled with pets unfortunately.

That won't happen because we haven't returned to normal yet. Once people start commuting again, doing the school run with umpteen children, wanting to go on foreign holidays or weekends away, that's when this lockdown puppy will start to become a burden.

Or when we return to normal, furloughs end, and people lose their jobs/income/homes :(

Or maybe irresponsible people will always be irresponsible and responsible people won’t be?

Many peoples workplaces have permanently changed due to lockdown. My DHs has. He will never have to go back to office based work. This means you can change your lifestyle and yes for some people dogs are a part of that. Why begrudge them this?

@Scoobydoobydoo

Thanks *@bunnygeek* What you say makes sense

I saw the following info on petplan.co.uk and probably misunderstood
How does Lucy's Law affect pet buyers?
If you’re looking to introduce a new puppy or kitten aged under 6 months in to your home, legally you will only be able to buy the animal directly from the breeder or a genuine rescue. When purchasing a new puppy or kitten from a breeder, be sure to ask the following questions:

1. How old is the puppy/kitten?

When buying a puppy or kitten, it should be over 8 weeks old to ensure that it is physically and emotionally mature enough to leave its mother and litter siblings.

1. Has the puppy/kitten been bred at the premises?

If the puppy/kitten that you’re buying is under 6 months old, legally it must be bred at the premises from which the sale is being made.

Yeah this bit wasn't explained so well. Lucy's Law only applies to people who hold breeding licences. A private owner may not be the breeder but is also not held to account to a licence, nor do they need a licence as they're not breeding (three or more litters a year) or claiming to have bred the dog.

It's actually called the much less catchy "The Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2019"
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2019/9780111186954

The worst thing is that a lot of these dogs will have been bred in puppy farms in the UK or elsewhere and in some cases illegally imported. A lot of these puppy farms are big businesses now, and very good at putting on a "front" to convince people they are legitimate.

Of course, now, when you can't visit someone's house, it must be even easier for them to deceive people.

The huge money these puppies are going for at the moment will just fuel the problem.

That won't happen because we haven't returned to normal yet
We did to some extent after the 1st lockdown and it didn't happen then.

There are a lot of posters who seem to relish with glee the idea of abandoned puppies. Why?

@sophialagiraffe

There are a lot of posters who seem to relish with glee the idea of abandoned puppies. Why?

This!

MN seems to think anyone who has bought a puppy in the last year is a puppy farm supporting idiot and they should have rescued from one of the overflowing shelters instead. Completely ignoring the fact that most rescues have been completely inundated with applications and are haven't been overflowing for a good while.

Yes, idiots will have bought puppies last year. They always have and they always will. Ive seen some adverts myself that make my toes curl. But I wager that the majority of people wanted a dog before lockdown and have used this time wisely. My pup was born in September and has only really known lockdown but he is still plenty socialised - it is possible!

< misses point of thread >

@dontdisturbmenow

That won't happen because we haven't returned to normal yet We did to some extent after the 1st lockdown and it didn't happen then.

It was the summer holidays plus a lot of people remained on furlough. I haven’t been back to my office in London for nearly a year now.

It won't end until there is no longer money to be made. One of my neighbours bought a male pug so he could breed with the female he already had. I don't know how much he's selling the puppies for, but he will charge as much as he can get away with. This wasn't actually the part which gave me the rage though. What really got me was him keeping one of the male puppies because it was a different colour to the breeding pair he's already got.

So now, a dog which is already prone to major health problems is going to be bred with it's own mother. Somehow, I don't think he's going to be publicising that little detail

@umpteennamechanges

Completely get your thinking on this but it would only be comparable to moggies if the dogs randomly bred, the way that cats do.

Unfortunately, in these puppy farms, they inbreed like mad so many (like my rescue pup who came from one of those places) have lots of problems. Despite being bred from two breeds, my dog has behavioural and physical issues that the vet puts down to his background. His mother was probably his sister sort of thing.

Anyway, that's one aspect as to why it's bad.

@dontdisturbmenow your dog seems to be more socialised than most people during lockdown.

You sound very defensive, this isn't a personal attack. I suspect you know full well what a lot of people think of lockdown puppies because of the reasons given. Surely you can appreciate that these are valid concerns. I am glad your puppy is one of the lucky ones.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan yes this experience will become more common I think. Sorry you had to go through that and many condolences for your family member

I just worked out "Schichonpoo/Zuchipoo"

It's just two different ways of saying a shitzu/Bichon Frise/poodle mix. Or that the breeder basically has no idea which dog got to which bitch.

Of all the mongrel mash-ups, this probably perplexes me most. Why mix those three?

I've just looked on manytearsrescue.org as suggested by PP. It's heartbreaking 😭

Please someone with a kind heart adopt Adina!! https://manytearsrescue.org/displaymtarr_dog.php?id=29150

So many of my friends now have lockdown dogs, all from breeders

Every 'breeder' on Gumtree and Pets4homes spells puppies as "puppy's". It could not make one appear less qualified, than to be unable to spell that which one is selling.

@grinchyvalentine, I hate irresponsible pet owners as much as you or others. My posts are in no way defending them.

My issue is with some people who seem to think they are holier than thou, who come to preach and build generalisation putting everyone in the same basket.

The very vast majority of those who got a dog during lockdown have been very good pet owners, have been able to spend more time with them to ease them into their family, and training them. They have ensured that they were properly socialised and are over the moon to have a new addition to their family.

Yes there will be idiots who will have no thoughts of the consequences of returning to work and not budget for daycare.

But hopefully, this will be balanced out with more workers who will be told they can work from home permanently or will apply to jobs working from home with more available who will be able to adopt when they would have been able before.

Judging individual people who are idiots is fine but let's not make assumptions on all those who got a dog during lockdown and conclude they are bad dog owners.

What on earth :( there are loads like this!

The last picture isnt even a cockerpoo, it's a springer.

Maybe this trend is positive, and ultimately the craze will be for very special dogs such as a

French-cocker-labra-Shi-Whippet-poo, aka Heinz 57

I miss seeing random non specified breeds. Bring back good old mongrels . You can give them a fancy made up name if you like

My girl was used as a breeding bitch...kept in a whelping box for most of her life. After two months in a rescue getting treatment, she still looked like the photo below. Underweight and still covered in bald patches. It took us months to get her healthy and costs a fortune every month in medication, but she's worth it. These breeders should be strung up!

It's not just the buying of lockdown puppies that's irresponsible, these dogs are bought with little research into dog ownership. There are reports of more dog fouling not being picked up by owners.