Please tell me good things about collies!

[Sparkle79]

I'm getting so much negativity from people making me think I've made a terrible mistake. Please give me hope that the biting and the herding will get better and he will be lovely one day.

Herding instinct never went away with mine. She doesn’t bite, that only lasted a couple of weeks as a puppy. Mine also barks incessantly often at nothing much (wind, snow, a leaf etc)We’ve had vets, trainers and behaviourists and they’ve all said she is a naturally highly strung and anxious dog which is unlikely to change :(

Her recall is fantastic though and she can be easily distracted from Herding if you get her before she properly starts. That took us a good three or four years of work though.

My BC is lovely and if she didn’t bark so much would be the perfect dog.

I had a collie for 15 years and the herding never fully went away either! We just got used to it and it did ease a little when she got very old and arthritic. She'd pace around the house checking where everyone was. The only times she'd ever fully relax was if we were all in one room or if everyone was asleep in their bedrooms with her keeping watch on the landing. She was a fab dog.

6 collies here and loads of good things to say. The most amazing intelligent. empathic dogs BUT they need time. Whether that be for brain work or exercise you can not ignore a collie or take a day off from them.

They will want to herd to the day they die so give them outlets to herd in a safe and appropriate way.

Biting depends on when it happens so you will need to redirect or prevent her being in the situation that makes her bite unless this is puppy biting when give her something appropriate to bite.

My mother has a collie after my step dad had find memories of his childhood dog being a collie.

My mother lives in a courtyard house, the dog is in a crate most of the time.

When they let it out it goes crazy and digs so as a consequence they crate it.

The vers only know what my parents tell them and they certainly don't tell vet they crate it 22 hours a day, vet has recommended valium and a dog whisperer. Vet compared the dog to a child with autism as the dog wants only to fetch. No interest in food or anything else, it cannot tolerate a collar or leash and goes crazy.

Everyone advised them not to get it, especially as my parents are the biggest homebodies and don't do any exercise or walks etc (morbidly obese).

I think they're a next level commitment with the stimulation they need, perfect for someone that can offer them that.

@PollyRoulson thank you, great to hear.

Any recommendations for outlets for herding? We name his toys and get him to fetch and I blow bubbles for him to pop. Also do lots of feeding things like scattering but would love any other suggestions.

He's 20 weeks so I'm hoping the biting will improve with age.

Use a ball to herd rather than chase. A collies motivation is to stop and start movement not to retrieve.

Get a ball and you stand at 6 clock to the ball your collie will probably without training or coaching stand at 12.00 to the ball .
So you are opposite your collie with the ball in the middle. Be about 3 from the ball.

Gently step to your right your dog should also mrror your movement if not wait and see if they do. If they do gentle move the ball and the dog can move onto the ball.

Set this up again and this time move to the left your dog should again mirror your movement.

IF your dog does not move they have gone waaaay to herdy and just get them up and moving so move away from the ball and gently move the ball to a new location.

You can get really smart alec and say "away" when your dog moves anti clockwise and "comebye" when they move clock wise.

Also google Kay Laurence she has some great calm herding games for collies.

What is he biting and when does he bite?

Tuggy toys are great to redirect biting onto. If he is herding you when you walk have a long tuggy that he can direct onto and pull on that rather than go for your ankles and clothes

Hello!

I have had some great advice from this board on my Collie/Kelpie Cross. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4158443-Atypical-collie

and www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4162322-Atypical-collie-really-is-atypical-collie-DNA-test-surprise.

Can you tell us a bit more about what herding behaviours he is displaying, and when? My boy is at his worst when someone tries to leave the house, but I don't know what triggers your dog. To deal with ours now the second he displays any unwanted behaviour (nipping, etc) he goes straight to time out. No waiting or asking him to stop - it's already too late by then - until he learns more self control we have to remove him immediately from what's stimulating him. It does really work - we take him to the downstairs toilet, which has no windows, and leave him there for a couple of minutes to calm down. And he always does. Strangely he will follow us to the toilet - still barking and trying to nip - so we don't have to try and get a lead on him. It's like he knows he needs to have an intervention!

If you search on YouTube for 'sheepballs' there are lots of videos of games you can play with tennis balls that simulate the herding movement, which might be a good outlet. You could try searching for 'herding games', as well.

Our dog has one of these: www.amazon.co.uk/Jolly-Pets-Soccer-Green-X-Large/dp/B01EMSVU36/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=Jolly+ball&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1613728896&sr=8-7

The idea is it's too big for him to pick up, so he has to chase and herd it. Ours loves it - we do it in a secure field with him.

You will hate me for saying this, but I think part of dealing with it is coming to terms with the dog in front of you: this is how they are. So I am not sure if 'will it get better' is the right question. We have had our dog for four months, and what I can tell you is that he is not necessarily better - but WE are better with dealing with him, which in turn has made him a calmer and happier dog.

As you'll see from the threads my boy is reactive, but already he is much calmer now we are crating him on car journeys, and enforcing a crate nap twice a day (he is currently in his crate right now, fast asleep). As you know, collies are high energy and also quite highly strung, so working on a 'settle' is really important. We do lots of brain games and sniffing games which he loves. On our walk this morning he had a great time as we saw not a single other dog or person, and he was sniffing for almost the entire walk. Which is why he is now fast asleep.

I do empathise - we were really thrown in at the deep end and it has been very, very difficult. But, I can see light at the end of the tunnel, now. And as I say, it's because we have better strategies for dealing with him, so things don't degenerate into herding/nipping us shouting/getting angry, which just makes it worse.

Good luck and apologies for the length of this, but I hope some if it is helpful!

Ah - I see @PollyRoulson has given you great advice on how sheepballs should work! I haven't done it yet with my boy but we will do.

Collie Cross here so maybe more relaxed. She isn't a huge herder but she NEVER forgets. If you play a game in a certain spot on a walk, that becomes part of our routine. An hour walk when she was one is three now because i stopped at this tree trunk to pretend to throw pinecones. And we now do it EVERY time. She's playful so it's so easy to do a new game then think "shit, this is forever".... 😁 Love her to pieces. She's my shadow and I'm actually unsure if i could ever get another clever because she's just perfect.

Flamerouge re nipping when you walk away - just drop treats on the floor when you walk away. Dog eats treats you walk away and no nipping all calm

Whatamess666 0h yes the game stations on walks. We have the happy tress you can NOT walk past them you have to be sent around them in an agility round the tree game. The fallen tree that you HAVE to walk along and put two feet on and two feet off at the end.

The cones that have to be weaved through as we leave the carpark

The scent wall that always have to have a scent put on it or else the world will stop. It is actaully just a pile of bricks dumped in the field!

It is their job to do these things

@PollyRoulson we've tried that - he won't take treats when he thinks I might be about to leave. It's real panic and fear...

Same with the not-forgetting, though - every tree where there was ONCE a squirrel!

[quote Flamerouge]@PollyRoulson we've tried that - he won't take treats when he thinks I might be about to leave. It's real panic and fear...

Same with the not-forgetting, though - every tree where there was ONCE a squirrel![/quote]
Have you tried doing 5 minutes of scent work with him to get him relaxed and focused on treats, before you scatter a handful of treats and walk away?

So with the treats and leaving, just treat when you are sitting, just treat when you are standing up, just treat when you take one step and sit down again etc.

Dont just give the treats remember the movement thing sling the treats a short distance away - the movement is what he works for.

If he is not reacting to this then you have not got a herding issue but separation anxiety issue which would need to be treated in a different manner.

@PollyRoulson do you have any suggestions for treating separation anxiety when out on walks.
When I take dog out along with son/daughter and they so much cross over to the other pavement (to keep distance from other pedestrians or to go drop the poo bag in the bin) we have serious upset.
I usually wait till we are all together but the dog is very angry and upset that one of us went away even though its brief. The rest of the walk home is with one very angry, pully dog who anyway doesnt walk well on leads.
Sorry OP if I hijacked your thread!

I just bought my girl a snuffle bowl for her birthday and she's obsessed. Treats but brain work too. Could you build that into her leaving routine? We have biscuit spots at the end of the fun bits which mean home time

Miffyliffy You have to do something for that poor dog.

Hi tens work for my girl too tho mostly i walk her off lead as she's bomb proof. She gets maybe four metres away and i click my mouth and she comes back for a hi. Ten. After my first one she starts. Instigating it herself and I have to be ready!

At 20 weeks with my male I was repeatedly asking myself wtf I had done. He was such such hard work. It was my first male collie. Another person I met when walking had one, same age dog and male also. He was also a little bastard. We both secretly enjoyed seeing each other because our struggles were different, but equally as bad and frustrating. It was nice to see him racing past me shouting at his dog, because I knew I wasn't the only one suffering lol.

By 8 months he had calmed down. By 2 he was just brilliant. He is 6 this year and although he still has the herding instinct, I couldnt ask for a better dog. We are inseperable.
I have a female collie too and she was such an easy pup compared to him.

It really does get better.

@Whatamess666

Collie Cross here so maybe more relaxed. She isn't a huge herder but she NEVER forgets. If you play a game in a certain spot on a walk, that becomes part of our routine. An hour walk when she was one is three now because i stopped at this tree trunk to pretend to throw pinecones. And we now do it EVERY time. She's playful so it's so easy to do a new game then think "shit, this is forever".... 😁 Love her to pieces. She's my shadow and I'm actually unsure if i could ever get another clever because she's just perfect.

I thought I'd written that! Our collie cross is the same, they just never forget a game 🤣

Ours is smart and clever and very easy to train but god she gets so excited by water I can't take her to the beach she just goes nuts

@PollyRoulson - thank you - I will give your suggestions a go. Once I have left the house he is fine, so not sure if it is separation anxiety, or what. We'll keep working on it.

@TheChip really good to hear your experience. My boy is ten months so full-on teenager and he had an unsettled start for the first six months of his life. We are definitely making progress but so encouraging and I hope for OP, as well, to hear that yours settled down.

Thanks so much for all the positive responses and advice, will check out those other threads and Google the ideas mentioned.

I should have been more specific but when I said herding I meant cars! He just wants to chase them all

The biting has got better, especially the instigating play / herding biting has pretty much stopped, he still accidentally bites us when we're playing which I don't mind as it's accidental. But sometimes he seems pure angry because we're not letting him eat something he wants to eat or do something he wants to do and he'll snap at us. I think I just worry that he'll be an aggressive dog and we'll never be able to relax and have the kids friends round to play in case he snaps or bites them.

Ohhh herding cars!

Do you have a clicker? Worth getting and using with a collie. If you do not have one get one and just click and give your dog a treat. Really quickly (in 2 clicks!) your dog will understand click means treat. Make it a good treat.

Then go to an area where you can have distance from cars. It may literally be the otherside of a football pitch. You need to see and hear cars but your dog not react. It may be you can do this indoors in your house depending on your location.

As soon as you HEAR a car coming click and treat your dog, initially you will have to give the treat to your dog but soon he will turn to you when he hears the click. Do not worry if he reacts just move further away from the car but still click and treat.

Very very very quickly your dog will hear a car and turn to you for the treat - make sure you ALWAYS reward for several weeks to come.

You can then gradually move nearer to the cars and your dog should still be under threshold.

@Flamerouge just reading your other threads. Funnily enough we were just saying yesterday we thought he might have some Australian Kelpie in him. He's crossed with something but we're not entirely sure what. What DNA test did you use as we're thinking of doing one?

@PollyRoulson thank you, we do have a clicker but haven't actually used it. Will definitely try that, thanks

@Sparkle79 we used Wisdom panel. I appreciate it’s a bit of a luxury, but if you can find the money it’s definitely worth it if you are unsure about what your dog is. We had been told ours was all border collie, but there was always something extra in there that made us curious.

Mine also has issues with car herding. We now don’t walk him on a pavement at all - it’s too stressful for him and us, and frankly dangerous. The secured fields I use both have roads on one side of them (fenced off, obviously!) and if we let him, he would chase cars up and down the fence all day. We do as @PollyRoulson suggests - he is on a long line or lead and we are working on getting him closer and closer to the cars while we treat him. I am under no illusions that he will ever be a dog I could happily walk down a pavement with, to be honest, so we have had to adapt to him and take him for walks where there will be no traffic.

The only time he indifferent to cars is if he is playing ball or frisbee, but you can hardly do that at the side of the road!