Pack behavior

[scentedgeranium]

I am the owner of a big soppy Golden Retriever whose recall is spot on and assumes every other dog is as soppy as he is. My previous dog - a springador was much the same.
But on almost every walk we get a situation where two or more dogs belonging to the same person round him up and behave like a hostile pack. Why do they do this and what can I do? I recall but today they literally cornered him; there was no way for him to get to me.
The owner cheerily called 'don't worry they're not aggressive, just enthusiastic' as I gritted my teeth and muttered.

I know what you mean @scentedgeranium. It has happened to our dog a few times. He is a real softy and submissive too. Some dogs seem to be hell bent on bullying him. I think it is down to a lack of training. The dogs get away with behaving badly, and they rub off on each other.

I don't think it helps to think of it as dog bullying - because it implies a moral value to a behaviour that has no moral component, from the dog's pov. (I totally get why it is easy to think of it like that, though.)

However, it's not a behaviour that anyone or any dog should just have to put up with. If muttering doesn't change anything, then feel confident to give firm instruction: "call your dogs off and keep them away". It's not unreasonable to ask for this (and demand it, if necessary).

I personally just keep repeating "you need to get your dog(s) back under control" regardless of whether or not someone tells me their dog is friendly.

You sound like you aren’t understanding dog behaviour. What’s aggressive?
Dogs do circle each other and sniff each other.
Is he well socialised and confident? Or is he nervous and so you feel he’s being bullied?
If my pair are both trying to greet a dog and it seems unsure then I call them away.

He's very confident. In fact I'd started to think that was the problem in that he will say hi to most digs but then in certain situations where there are two or more in the same family there's this what I view as domineering behavior. Added to which the owners often interrogate me as to whether my dog is entire. He isn't.
I've owned retrievers for 15 years who are confident and socialised and also obedient. But sometimes this 'pack' behavior flummoxes me esp when combined with teeth and cornering behavior

Circling and sniffing isn't the problem. My dog loves a mutual sniff. I described hostile behavior and a desire to understand it

But what’s hostile? Mine show their teeth but because they’re laughing.
Dog body language is very subtle. If there isn’t fighting going on then I am not sure I would call it aggressive. What exactly happens?

Well teeth (snarl like) and cornering/rounding up behavior (and I'm not talking collies here necessarily). Maybe I have confident but dopes dogs but I have never seen either snarl. Nor in fact many other dogs I know.
I'm not judging just trying to understand the huge gulf in behavior of a minority of dogs who are in the same 'pack'. And many other dogs o know who are in the same family don't do this. In fact I've just returned from a walk with a visler and lab who don't do this.

I have literally never seen a snarling dog on a walk. And pack theory has been debunked.

I'm afraid I also don't understand what you mean by hostile in this situation - what is that they're doing that's hostile?

The question is a reasonable one, to me.

The pack theory that has been debunked is one of a strict linear hierarchical ranking. Not whether or not dogs behave differently in groups vs solo - which seems to me to be what the OP is asking. From a scientific definition, "pack" might not be the most accurate word as a pack is a very specific type of social arrangement but from an 'every day language' pov I think the OP just means group.

I suspect there is a reasoned debate to be had about whether a group of dogs, all known to one another, has an influence on the behaviours of the individuals in those groups. i.e. if one is nervous, does it increase the nerves in others? Or does it increase confidence levels and therefore make individuals more likely to engage in behaviour that they would not do if they were alone, such as a more full on greeting pattern?

I have my suspicions but cannot recall any studies on the topic - though I don't doubt they are out there.

Ultimately though, if the OP doesn't like the behaviour they should feel ok to ask the other owner to recall their dogs away - regardless of the dogs' intent.

@Wolfiefan, I have seen the same type of behaviour that @scentedgeranium has seen. It’s not friendly behaviour. I wouldn’t go so far as to say aggression, but it’s not friendly behaviour. Our dog has been chased down and prevented from getting back up. The dogs then lunge at him barking and nipping. Not aggression but bad behaviour.

Bullying probably isn’t the right word, but that’s what it looks like @SirSniffsAlot.

Thank you @SirSniffsAlot for articulating better than me! I'm obviously far too lay in my terminology.
Me and dear dog cope. We walk miles and miles off lead and aren't put off. I'm just asking for an explanation and way of dealing with it. I guess I find the owners' responses a bit meh.

The owners responses are a bit meh! Actually more than a bit. The owners responses are shit.
Unfortunately, I think this is one of those situations where the only behaviour you can influence is your own by telling the owners in no uncertain terms to get their dogs back under control.