Will he get better?

[FishWithoutABike]

Our 13 week old spaniel is very anxious. The only time he seems relaxed is on my knee. He barks cries and howls of left for a second and is petrified of people and dogs. He will growl and bark if the get too close.
We are getting advice from a trainer and I’m confident we are doing the right things but I’m worried it’s just his personality.
Will we ever be able to leave the house or even go to the toilet alone again? Have other people had a nervous pup who grew up okay?

Imo, he will always be nervous.
You can probably manage his nervousness but imo he won’t ever be super outgoing and confident.
Did you see his parents?
A lot of personality is inherited..

Mum barked at us. The breeder made out that she was just a bit freaked out by the masks and the outdoor meeting etc but looking back maybe she was the same. All KC registered etc.

Mum barked at us. The breeder made out that she was just a bit freaked out by the masks and the outdoor meeting etc
Nervous then.
All KC registered etc
That means nothing.
It’s a registry for pure bred dogs. That is all.
It is in no way an indication of good breeding.

A decent breeder wouldn’t have bred a nervous bitch, did the breeder have a contract stating she would take the dog back if you couldn’t look after him?
If so, i’d return him personally.

He may get better with time, but in my experience, nervous puppies turn into nervous adults.

Unfortunately, the puppy being KC registered means nothing.

And yes, I appreciate that last line comes across harsh and uncaring, as if he is a pair of shoes rather than a living breathing creature but a very nervous, reactive (you mentioned he growls at people and dogs) dog is hard to handle.
You’ll have to do whatever you think is best but either way I think you need to accept that at best, he will always be shy and non social.

Some dogs are naturally nervous and unfortunately COVID has affected the amount of socialisation that you can do.

You need some small positive interactions with other people/dogs, which I know is difficult at the moment.

As for the Velcro puppy- completely normal, as long as you slowly and sensibly get him use to settling in his own company then there is no reason you shouldn’t be able to leave him just like any other dog.

For example rather than letting him lay on your knee, sit on the floor with his bed beside you and encourage him to lay in the bed instead. Keep moving him back into the bed and stroking him.

Don’t panic, he’s still such a baby!

A 13 week old puppy being labelled ‘reactive’ .
Everything is new and scary to him at the moment.

A 13 week old puppy being labelled ‘reactive’ hmm
Everything is new and scary to him at the moment
I have been around plenty of puppies and only a very tiny percentage were fearful. Only one I’ve met that growled in fear at strangers.
I’m not sure it’s that common, most puppies are super excited and keen to explore everything.
Add to that the fact the pup has come from a nervous reactive mum, it doesn’t look good imo.

@RunningFromInsanity

A 13 week old puppy being labelled ‘reactive’ . Everything is new and scary to him at the moment.

Yes, a 13 week old puppy can absolutely be reactive. It's very rare, but it's certainly a possibility.

Unfortunately, lockdown means many puppies can't be socialised properly. On top of that, many inexperienced breeders are cashing in, and are breeding from dogs who have had no health tests and are of poor temperament.

Puppies need lots of positive experiences in their early weeks. If they don't get that, they often struggle for life. Sadly, with lockdown, the opportunity for positive experiences outside the home is limited as most people are indoors and people who are outdoors don't want to come close to you or your puppy.

Have you tried Adaptil? It is supposed to soothe nervous dogs - you can get it as a spray, in a collar or in a diffuser.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

Have you tried Adaptil? It is supposed to soothe nervous dogs - you can get it as a spray, in a collar or in a diffuser.

We have that already :(

We have been able to take him out and meet people as soon as he had his injections. Surely waiting till 12 weeks would have been the same in non-lockdown times.

Are there any outdoor puppy classes? He needs some good examples to learn from, so try a local FB group & see if there is anyone with a slightly older, confident puppy you can walk in the park with.

I have joined a group and I’m meeting one other person (in line with lockdown guidelines) this weekend.

@FishWithoutABike

We have been able to take him out and meet people as soon as he had his injections. Surely waiting till 12 weeks would have been the same in non-lockdown times.

You can take them out before 12 weeks, just don't put them on the ground. There are lots of puppy slings/bags that you can get to carry them around in. You can also take them out in the car with you and let them experience the world from say, the car boot.

We did that. We used a rucksack on the wrong way round. I honestly don’t think we’ve done anything wrong. That’s what’s so disheartening about it.

@FishWithoutABike

We did that. We used a rucksack on the wrong way round. I honestly don’t think we’ve done anything wrong. That’s what’s so disheartening about it.

You have done nothing wrong. Remember this and do not let other people tell you otherwise. A lot of people will have an opinion and say they know your dog better than you! This is the time to get a thick skin.

Spaniels can be quite anxious and separation anxiety is cmmon in spaniels. You are right to get in a trainer and let them help you, show you the way forward. You can have a great bond with your dog if you are shown the right way to progress.

Lockdown is actually a fantastic time to socialise puppies. Socialisation is seeing , smelling, observing not always interacting and getting overwhelmed which is what many owners do to their dogs. Lockdown allows for most socialisation to take place in a much lower key fashion which is what most puppies prefer.

I hope you feel more confident and get a good plan from your trainer. Give your puppy loads of support and go at their pace - do not push them "to get over things"

@FishWithoutABike

I have joined a group and I’m meeting one other person (in line with lockdown guidelines) this weekend.

We are taking our puppy to play sessions. We can’t stay, due to Covid, but he can play with other puppies and meet the people who run the place etc. It’s an hour every week, and only £10

Thanks @PollyRoulson we have had a lot of well meaning advice from lots of people IRL that has made me feel like we are failing. Both myself and my partner don’t do things by half’s and have really researched training. He can do a lot of tricks and we have really spent time making sure he is getting a lot of mental stimulation. He doesn’t mouth (much) walks well on a loose lead (most of the time). Then I see other people who don’t seem to do any training with friendly pups and it breaks my heart. I just want him to be okay.

He would freak out and the trainer says don’t push him.

^ that response is to @Derbee

You aren’t failing.
The blame lies with the greedy pig who bred a bitch of nervous temperament and produced puppies with the same nervous temperament.
He probably is ‘manageable’ but I wouldn’t be thinking he’ll grow up and ‘be okay’ as in super confident because imo that isn’t likely.
He’ll most likely always be shy and wary of new things but that doesn’t mean that with good management he won’t be a lovely pet.

My sister's dog has been nervous since day one. He hates strangers, hates other dogs and is generally very anxious. When he was 10 weeks old he bit someone that tried to stroke him. At 14 weeks old he bit the vet and drew blood. The vet said he intended to harm, it wasn't just puppy biting. She said she'd never come across another puppy so young to be fear aggressive. She put my sister in touch with a behaviourist and they have been working together for the past 5 months but it's very slow progress. The vet and behaviourist both think it's hereditary unfortunately. My sister is in a group chat with the pups siblings and there's only one out of five that is a happy sociable pup. The other 4 are all the same, very anxious and fear aggressive. He is a cockapoo, and I think the people who bred him were clearly only in it for the money. Very sad really. He has to be muzzled when at the vets, and she can't let anyone near him or chances are he will bite. Hopefully things get better with time and training.

How can we possibly advise without a single photo??

You saw them outside, was that at their home or did you meet them somewhere?