Ddog attacked and bit me

[MotherForker]

For context, I've asked for advice before, ddog jumps and mouths/bites when she is highly aroused. It's playful, apart from the fact she is 25kg and 18 months old. We have been working with a behaviourist on this.

Tonight, I let her into the garden without realising that our NDN dog was out. Their dog is lovely, but terrified of other dogs and jumps and barks at the fence. We have added to the top of the fence to prevent them ever meeting. Ddog used to just wag her tail and look bemused by this, but recently has started jumping and barking back and launching at the fence. She's been mouthing me in the house for the last hour.

NDN was trying to get their dog in and I went to fetch ddog, as no amount of treat was going to tempt her. As I went towards her she turned and launched at me, bit my hard on my wrist. She kept going until I managed to grab her collar and bring her in. Then I was trapped by the door and she carried on barking and jumping at me. My wrist is bleeding and swollen.

I am doing everything advised by behaviourist. She has been checked by vet for pain several times. I've sat and cried feeling sorry for myself. I have two children and will soon be sole parent in this house (stbxh is moving out in a week).

I don't want to give up on her. But it more and more feels like she is beyond my capabilities. Any advice welcome.

Seek medical attention asap, it looks quite red (which is understandable as it happened recently) but you don’t want to risk an infection

It deserves to live a life where your daughter isn’t allowed to put rubbish on its head. That isn’t how a living creature should be treated and your daughter should be taught boundaries. That picture illustrates all that is wrong with your expectations of a dog.

I do agree with this. It’s much more eloquently worded than my attempt earlier! Don’t let your children treat animals like toys OP, it’s risky as it could trigger even a docile, non-aggressive dog. I remember reading about a dog who turned on its owner after she tried to put a Christmas jumper on it - to humans it’s a cute bit of fun, but dogs can find it uncomfortable/unnatural. Don’t let your kids back the dog into a corner so to speak.

OP could you explain the strategy the behaviourist gave you for dealing with the mouthing specifically? I was just interest in the comment you made re "being mouthed at for the last hour" - can you explain what both of you were doing in this time?

As a reactive dog owner, it saddens me that so many posters are happy to suggest pts based on their own lack of knowledge. I’m by no means an expert, but it’s beyond obvious you’re dealing with reactivity rather than aggression. That doesn’t mean it’s not a serious issue, or that you can’t decide she’s not the right fit for you, but pts is way too extreme in the circumstances. I would suggest joining ‘Reactive Dogs (UK)’ on FB for support from people that are clued up on this type of behaviour and the reasons behind it.

My girl has done the exact same thing to me but she’s a staffy I dread to think what posters would have had to say about her had I posted at the time

People can have mental health issues, be psychopathic, be cruel people but it seems ALL dogs are stable loving creatures and it's always bad ownership that is the problem - and this is despite the intensive breeding and cross breeding, sometimes cruel pup rearing that goes on nowadays.

Give it to a reputable dogs home and they will rehome her suitably.
Dog and you will be happier, DCs safe.

I can't stand to see children decorating dogs. They aren't toys. I have four DC and they are not allowed to do anything but pet our dog under supervision. That's it.

I would hazard a guess we are not getting full background of what's going on with this dog so probably would be best to re-home to an organisation.

So your eight year old has a friend over during the summer holidays (it’s sunny outside but you can’t have the back door open incase the NDN dog is in it’s garden) but whilst your upstairs in the shower the 8 year old friend opens the back door. The NDN dog is outside. Your dog runs out and friend suddenly remembers they’re not supposed to open the back door, they try to reach for dog (who always looks super cute in the photos her friend sends to her) she is attacked by your dog and by the time you hear noise and get out the shower etc. the 8 year old friend is scarred for life.
Do yourself and the dog a favour. Rehome it. Save yourself this hypothetical scenario becoming a reality.
I believe you’ve worked very hard and tried everything. As a soon to be single mum I think you need to reduce the stress in your life and I can’t imagine how on alert you’ll have to be all the time, but especially when your DC have friends over.

I certainly wouldn’t allow kids to go near the face of such a volatile dog (with the head piece). You never know what would happen.

Personally I think you need to rehome ASAP, and until that point separate the dog and kids.

I agree it’s re directed aggression but in my opinion that doesn’t really change much.

She’s a very big, very strong dog who has shown that if she gets agitated enough, this time by the dog next door, she will bite anyone who comes too close.
It wouldn’t be quite so bad if she’d stopped once she’d been taken away but you said you were trapped by the door and she continued aggressing at you.

In my opinion, such a dog is dangerous and the responsible thing to do would be PTS.

No one can reasonably recommend what to do with a serious behavioural issue for a dog they don't know and have never seen.

The only people the OP should be listening to are qualified professionals who know and have seen the dog.

The egg box on her head was a one off, honestly. We don't dress her up, but I take on board what you say. The dc know and are reminded to leave her alone when she's sleeping etc. I know she isn't a toy.

The mouthing earlier: I was on my bed reading and she came up. She nudged my hand then started mouthing my hand. It's part of her frustrated/bored communication. It means she wants a walk/dinner/attention/needs the toilet. She often does it when I'm working and in video meetings. I took her for a walk, but she refused to go further than the end of the road and just stood sniffing the air.

Now that sounds like she doesn't get what she needs, but the she gets regular walks (morning, lunch and after tea), and brain activities. Not all all day, she spends a considerable part of morning and afternoon fast asleep. 3-5pm is a particular difficult time when she seems intent on mouthing us for attention, or stealing stuff and doing mischief to get our attention. I'm working on it

@blowinahoolie honestly I am sharing everything I can without writing an essay each time. I'm not trying to be defensive or hiding anything. I have been upfront in other posts and to behaviourist about my failings. I want the best thing for all of us.

@Isitgiroday no specific tactic for mouthing as such, as most of the noting and jumping occurs on walks. Other than keep her on lead or long line at the moment to help control. I hold the lead down, hold the back of her harness and keep still and avoid eye contact until she calms down. Once she has "shaken off" I let go and usually that is enough. If she starts again, I repeat. I'm trying not to make noise, flap arms as this rewards her as a game.

The idea is to teach her to be calmer in general, teach her calming attention signals so that she can control herself more and not 'snap' into zoomies and biting.

@MotherForker I do think the best thing would be for this dog to live in a home with experienced adult owners and no children under 14 and I think your children are old enough to understand why this needs to be the case .

I've a St Bernard puppy OP so I know what mouthing is all about. She gets two warnings, then on third warning if she doesn't stop she is crated for ten minutes. She knows she has done wrong and comes out calmly and doesn't attempt to mouth again at anyone. Consistency is key.

@blowinahoolie, we did that in the house but 99% of it happens on a walk.

Due to the size of our puppy you cannot afford to let her away with any nonsense. Firm, clear boundaries needed. If I had a smaller breed I would possibly be more complacent. Breeder has gave us good advice which is working well. We also turn around with arms crossed at any jumping which works usually.

Walk her where it's very calm and quiet OP

Oh, I really feel for you OP. That sounds very difficult.
But I think that you are really really lucky to have a great solution - a good and experienced home with your relatives and you and the kids can still visit and see the dog (safely).
If you were faced with the possibility of giving the dog away or PTS then that would be so much harder and perhaps worth the massive effort that would be involved in addressing this issue with the dog and keeping it apart from the children.
Your dog can go to a more appropriate home and you can (eventually) adopt a dog who is more suited to family life. Sounds much better all around.

General strategy for mouthing is to give her something to mouth. Gundogs (eg the lab in her) often want to hold things. SO get her a fleece toy or soft toy or even stuffed sock and give it to her when she mouths you.

Put a chew toy in her bed and if she has had mental and physical exercise encourage her to chill on her own.

Another you could do in the home is has a short lead (very short on her collar 10" IF she gets in a situation like the fence chasing (although management is the best part of her treatment tbh) then you can use the attached lead to remove her and she will be less likely to grab you BUT run this past your behavourist as they will understand how your dog reacts to this.

My aunt has now said no on a permanent basis. Because of the more recent biting

So I need to contact the doodle Trust.

Turning our backs makes no difference she continued to jump and bark, but you end up with bites and bruises all over your back instead. I have videos, but can't upload those to mumsnet.

Behaviourist said she just gets frustrated by the back turning so she ramosnuo furyher

*ramps up

There will be someone for her, I've known ppl adopt far more difficult dogs and had great success with them. Have you contacted your local shelter? I expect they'll have a waiting list and good advice.

Have you got your hand checked, OP? Are you reluctant to as the PTS decision would likely be taken out of your hands?

No judgement from me but I think this sounds really tough. There is a risk to your children though and that must be put first.

Some of these responses are very disturbing.

Op this dog needs training and a very firm hand, whatever is occuring that’s not. I’m sorry.

If you can’t do it, then you need to rehome her, it’s a terrible terrible shame for the dog.

You have bites and bruises all over your back? You can't keep this dog, OP.